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gabe
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07-03-2006, 01:53 AM
Post subject: deep stacks, i have a set but board is flushy
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
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villian is on alot of my tables, been playing with him for an hour but within the past 10 minutes i had started reraising him alot in and out of position. we hadn't played any big pots though. hes probably getting annoyed with me but i cant say for sure.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG ($982)
MP ($731.76)
CO ($729)
Button ($2518.50)
Hero ($2248)
BB ($1217.75)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A , A . Hero posts a blind of $5.
3 folds, Button raises to $35, Hero (poster) raises to $115, 1 fold, Button calls $85.
Flop: ($250) 3, 2 , 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $200, Button calls $200.
Turn: ($650) A (2 players)
Hero checks.......
hows my check? whats my plan?
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
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I think a turn lead is better because he can use the diamond on the turn to try and blow you out of the pot. Given that you have reraised him quite a bit folding shouldn't really even be crossing your mind here.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
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call and value bet the river?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
I think a turn lead is better because he can use the diamond on the turn to try and blow you out of the pot. Given that you have reraised him quite a bit folding shouldn't really even be crossing your mind here.
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if i lead turn, hes folding everything that i beat.
the fact that ive reraised him obv should cross my mind because its unlikely for him to put me on such a big hand
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
I think a turn lead is better because he can use the diamond on the turn to try and blow you out of the pot. Given that you have reraised him quite a bit folding shouldn't really even be crossing your mind here.
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if i lead turn, hes folding everything that i beat.
the fact that ive reraised him obv should cross my mind because its unlikely for him to put me on such a big hand |
He isn't folding a set here, and leading the turn can easily induce a bluff vs a tricky opponent. He knows he has fold equity with stacks this deep and he knows you can't call a raise with AK if you lead the turn, so betting is good imo. If you're checking the turn it's only to induce a bluff, I wouldn't really ever consider folding if you had been reraising him a lot preflop. You reraised him preflop for this exact reason, to set him up in a big pot. Now you reraise him and on the turn you don't think he is calling with any worse hands than top set and isn't capable of making a move?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
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i dont think he is calling with a set because he would have probably raised a set on the flop. i dont think a bet gets value except from something like A6s which is really unlikely
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
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How about c/c turn, c/c river (unless it's a fourth non-pairing  )?
I don't think you can value bet here, because there are no obvious 2nd best hands.. A turn/river raise represents the flush and will only get called by a flush right?
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Margin Of Error
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
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Why not push and try to take the pot down? If he bets and you call arent you just asking to get raped if a non pairing diamond falls on the river?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
Why not push and try to take the pot down? If he bets and you call arent you just asking to get raped if a non pairing diamond falls on the river?
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If you push here the only hands which will call are hands which beat us. ie flushes. All the hands we could actually extract money from just fold.
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PO$$E$$ED
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
Posts: 263
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villain either has a set, an overpair to the flop, or a flush
if I felt that villain has a set I would lead, for value and also so he doesn't catch a flush if he has a diamond in his hand
if I thought villain had an overpair on the flop, the ace of diamonds is not a card he wanted to see, and would make him more inclined to fold when pressured- however, I would still bet here if you think he had overs on the flop, since your actions up to this point indicate to the villain that you're likely not on the flush
if he has the flush you want to check and try to see the river cheaply
however, given the preflop action, the only hands villain could be holding here is KdQd, KdJd, QdJd, or 10dJd
weighing all this, I think it makes it correct for gabe to lead here on the turn- I think he's giving up value and making it harder for himself by checking and giving up the initiative
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gabe
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PO$$E$$ED
given the preflop action, the only hands villain could be holding here is KdQd, KdJd, QdJd, or 10dJd
weighing all this, I think it makes it correct for gabe to lead here on the turn- I think he's giving up value and making it harder for himself by checking and giving up the initiative
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dont you think with deep stacks he could have a much wider range of sooted hands?
also, if villian has set they are almost always raising flop. i dont think they have a set much here. i think its probably one pair hands > flush > set. i haevnt played any big pots with villian since i started reraising though so i cant be certain.
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PO$$E$$ED
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
Posts: 263
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PO$$E$$ED
given the preflop action, the only hands villain could be holding here is KdQd, KdJd, QdJd, or 10dJd
weighing all this, I think it makes it correct for gabe to lead here on the turn- I think he's giving up value and making it harder for himself by checking and giving up the initiative
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dont you think with deep stacks he could have a much wider range of sooted hands? |
is he that loose? do you have any specific reads on this guy?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
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hes 21/18 and hes at alot of my tables, but like i said no read. i usually just automatically assume that with deep stacks people have a bigger calling range (because of more implied odds), but thats probably a mistake.
you listed JTd in a possible range, and ifhe calls with that preflop i dont see why he wouldnt call with T9d.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
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ANYWAY, i checked, he bet $350.
whats my plan now? call and lead any river? raise? include a plan for what happens after my turn action.
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beez
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 76
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hmm. i think raising the turn isn't a bad play. if he doesn't have the goods then the check to induce a bluff was good, and you can take it down now. if he reraises your turn raise he probably has the flush. if he just calls, then i think there's a good chance your hand is either good, or you'll have outs on the river to fill up.
just calling seems weak, and i think if you c/c the turn then he can probably take the hand away from you on the river, especially if another diamond falls
i really can't bring myself to see folding here as a good play
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
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I think I like calling and leading a blank river. If the board pairs, maybe go for a river c/r? What is your plan if a non-board pairing diamond hits the river? I'm still not sure what to do in this case.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
I think I like calling and leading a blank river. If the board pairs with a fourth diamond, maybe go for a river c/r?
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FYP IMO
Surely if a non board pairing diamond appears it has to be a c/f.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
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Just call. Check-call if you don't boat up and check-raise if you do.
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b-rabbit
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: virginia
Posts: 207
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ALL--IN. go for the glory gabe. defy the odds. reject your feelings of uncertainty. claim that pot that is rightfully yours...or go down in a whirlwind of smoke and fire. be the hero. but either way, don't go down without a fight!
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by b-rabbit
ALL--IN. go for the glory gabe. defy the odds. reject your feelings of uncertainty. claim that pot that is rightfully yours...or go down in a whirlwind of smoke and fire. be the hero. but either way, don't go down without a fight!
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hahahah!!!
Greatest first post ever!
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PO$$E$$ED
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
Posts: 263
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
ANYWAY, i checked, he bet $350.
whats my plan now? call and lead any river? raise? include a plan for what happens after my turn action.
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call turn
on the river if you don't improve, either bet 1/3 pot or check, I would lean towards checking
his range is wider than what I initially suggested if his stats are 21/18
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pantherhound
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Love me for a season
Posts: 492
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I WANT THE RESULTS OF THIS OLD OLD HAND. GABE ANY CHANCE YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED, THIS IS AN INTERESTING HAND.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by beez
. if he just calls, then i think there's a good chance your hand is either good, or you'll have outs on the river to fill up.
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TY SIR
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
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i checked river, he checked behind with red JJ
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