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couple hands against same villain - 5/10

  
 
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griffey24
Old 07-08-2008, 04:37 AM     Post subject: couple hands against same villain - 5/10 #1 (permalink)  
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 -Villain in these hands is Lang_56 from crypto
-he generally runs around 22.6/15/2 and even though I've played a lot of hands with him I don't have a good feel for his game yet
-no crazy dynamic in today's session. Had one hand where I had set over set against him but the turn flush card slowed the action, and that's prob one of the only hands he's seen of mine today

Hand 1:
-what's the best play on the turn (assuming I at least call)
-if I call, can I really fold the river if he bets? (river bet will be about $245 into 600)

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5 pounds
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $824.65
Button: $111.69
SB: $541
BB: $1730.20

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is UTG with
Hero raises to $15, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: ($50, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $32, Button folds, SB raises to $100, Hero calls.

Turn: ($250, 2 players)
SB bets $180, Hero ?





Hand 2:
-this is the first time he's flat called my 3-bet OOP

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $532
CO: $1062.28
Hero: $1874
SB: $2891
BB: $925

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with
UTG folds, CO raises to $30, Hero raises to $90, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: ($195, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($195, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $130, CO raises to $355, Hero?
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griffey24
Old 07-08-2008, 04:40 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Are these that standard!?

hand 1 - You can ask Alexos, I get into these dumbass spots really often. We always seem to disagree on the best line, cause I often jam and he often advocates calling and re-eval river (even though the river always leave some half pot bet). So I'm wondering what the consensus is here.

hand 2 - Is this just a levelling war? He knows I have at best AK/AQ, and he probably has more AJ, AT, KQ type of hands than I do. Wondering how bad a straight up fold on turn is?
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pocketfours
Old 07-08-2008, 04:46 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1. Raising is better than calling since dominated worse draws are committed against your range and villain isn't likely to bluff the river. A better hand will almost never give you a free showdown either.

Hand 2. I think you actually don't have to bet the turn here since you didn't cbet. His c/r makes a lot of sense with a wide range, but there's not much we can do about it.
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Alexos
Old 07-08-2008, 04:55 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
Are these that standard!?

hand 1 - You can ask Alexos, I get into these dumbass spots really often. We always seem to disagree on the best line, cause I often jam and he often advocates calling and re-eval river (even though the river always leave some half pot bet). So I'm wondering what the consensus is here.
nooo i often do say to call and call all rivers in places where villain still has room to bluff... When villain only has 1/3 pot on river i agree with u he'll prolly never bluff
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griffey24
Old 07-08-2008, 05:04 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Hand 1. Raising is better than calling since dominated worse draws are committed against your range and villain isn't likely to bluff the river. A better hand will almost never give you a free showdown either.
Yah I wasn't entirely sure on his range. The only draw was really QT, so I figured his range was predominantly hands like sets, Jx or AJ or Ax (bluff raised flop) that I was getting direct outs with a call on the turn.

But raise may be better if he ever folds a better Jx hand on the turn.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Hand 2. I think you actually don't have to bet the turn here since you didn't cbet. His c/r makes a lot of sense with a wide range, but there's not much we can do about it.
Yah, I suppose the turn bet was for balance against the times I don't have an ace in this spot.
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pocketfours
Old 07-08-2008, 07:53 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Hand 1. Raising is better than calling since dominated worse draws are committed against your range and villain isn't likely to bluff the river. A better hand will almost never give you a free showdown either.
Yah I wasn't entirely sure on his range. The only draw was really QT, so I figured his range was predominantly hands like sets, Jx or AJ or Ax (bluff raised flop) that I was getting direct outs with a call on the turn.

But raise may be better if he ever folds a better Jx hand on the turn.
He never folds a better Jx hand on the turn and you can't really fold the river either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Hand 2. I think you actually don't have to bet the turn here since you didn't cbet. His c/r makes a lot of sense with a wide range, but there's not much we can do about it.
Yah, I suppose the turn bet was for balance against the times I don't have an ace in this spot.
I don't think you need to balance here, because you usually cbet if your hand is weaker than ace high, so you shouldn't be in this spot with Q high very often. If you have a weak pair, then again you don't need to bet the turn since you have some showdown value.

If you would have cbet, then a lot of your range still contains air and you need to balance by betting the turn and probably stacking off with AQ here.
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gabe
Old 07-12-2008, 03:17 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Hand 1. Raising is better than calling since dominated worse draws are committed against your range and villain isn't likely to bluff the river. A better hand will almost never give you a free showdown either.
not so sure how often he has a worse draw but the fact that he doesnt bluff the river much makes calling turn and folding river unimproved seemed pretty good
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pocketfours
Old 07-12-2008, 04:23 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Hand 1. Raising is better than calling since dominated worse draws are committed against your range and villain isn't likely to bluff the river. A better hand will almost never give you a free showdown either.
not so sure how often he has a worse draw but the fact that he doesnt bluff the river much makes calling turn and folding river unimproved seemed pretty good
I think putting over half your stack in and then folding, especially when villain's range is polarized, you have a very good bluffcatcher and you only need to be good 22% of the time, requires totally sick hand reading skills. If you say you can do that profitably, then I believe you, but I wouldn't do it myself, nor would I recommend trying it.

If we assume that we are never folding the river, then shoving turn is clearly better than calling, amirite? I'mrite.
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wufwugy
Old 07-12-2008, 11:42 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 hand 1: depends a lot on villain and your image, but folding flop has merit. its probably actually best since you beat only a bluff, and he's probably not bluffing too much since flop was multiway. could be a spur of the moment bluff tho when he sees BTN fold.

hand 2: just flat pf. way more value in that.
 
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Alexos
Old 07-14-2008, 03:12 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 2) This is a guy that calls 3bets wayy too much, and he'll often have AJ/AT/KQ here so I'll check turn a lot.
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