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Call all in with bottom trips on river?

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mixchange

09-13-2009, 04:25 AM Post subject: Call all in with bottom trips on river?

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($1110)
CO ($1019)
Button ($1000)
SB ($793)
Hero (BB) ($1000)
UTG ($870)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5

, 4

1 fold, MP bets $30, CO calls $30, Button calls $30, 1 fold, Hero calls $20

Flop: ($125) 2

, 4

(4 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $80, 1 fold, Button calls $80, Hero calls $80

Turn: ($365) K

(3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $210, 1 fold, Hero calls $210

River: ($785) 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $790 (All-In), Hero ???

Villain is Firefox1, winning 5/10 reg
I won 1K in the past 2 days so I gave myself a 1 buy-in 5/10 shot for kicks tonight (IDK why!!! I usually "take shots" at 2/4) . I'm aware I'm the fish in the game, maybe one player worse if I'm lucky. I joined as the 6th player, its my 1st hand but I suspect FF1 could be raising pre light-ish in this spot.

Flop: With 3 way action I see no reason to raise as I want to keep button in (And more likely to have me out kicked if anyone was to have a 4).

Turn: Good scare card for him to bet, and likely puts me on a mid-pair type hand, and he probably expects me to raise here if I do have a 4.

River: Wow his range here seems, to be 222, A4s, KKK, 999, and pure air. IDK why he'd shove queens or a bare King. I feel like I played the hand so passively that I have to call, considering there aren't many EP combo's he can have that beat me.

However, I feel like my turn call shows a lot of strength, especially since I was flatting in a 4way pot. We have no history, obviously. What do you think?

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09-13-2009, 04:41 AM

#2 (permalink)

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I have no idea with these steaks, but at 100NL barreling an overcard is super standard because people fold too much
I imagine that tough regulars will keep calling despite the king on the board because it's such a good card to barrel... but then again, if he expects you to call with a wide range because of the scare card then he's strong... it's a kind of scare card leveling game

I think you can put AA into his range on the river

IowaSkinsFan

09-13-2009, 01:14 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

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Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

128 games 0.005 secs 25,600 games/sec

Board: 2s 4d 4h Ks 9h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 62.500% 62.50% 00.00% 80 0.00 { KK+, 99, 22, A4s }
Hand 1: 37.500% 37.50% 00.00% 48 0.00 { 54s, 54o }

That's not including other possible thin value.
/thread

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griffey24

09-13-2009, 01:22 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

I like how you played this hand, and this is the biggest snap call ever on the river. He could definitely be value betting worse, and your hand looks like 55-TT type hand so he can definitely even be bluffing as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

meeloche

09-13-2009, 04:49 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 2,131

For your sake I really hope you didn't' fold. Think about what your hand looks like and how he's gonna react to that. I call.

Alexos

09-13-2009, 05:19 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Location: Montreal

Posts: 2,766

Hmm, once you overcall the cbet on the flop, I'm pretty sure your hand looks like 4x. Pretty lol if you call some low pair here (mayyybe 88-JJ)

I'm still shocked at that stove though ISF, the only hand we beat in that range is AA, and we still have 37,5%. wtf. guess it is a snapcall

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nutsinho

09-13-2009, 07:08 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt

Posts: 3,280

i generally have somewhat nitty views in these spots and i think this is a very easy call

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IowaSkinsFan

09-13-2009, 10:15 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexos

trips are harder to make than pairs

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ESS123

09-14-2009, 03:16 PM

#9 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 52

i call quickly

The surest way to end a gambling career is to gamble.

mixchange

09-14-2009, 06:44 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

Ya I guess I over thought this at the time and was obviously scared money. My heart was jumping through my chest when I finally clicked call, deciding essentially "very few combos beat me, I played it very passive so I have to call." He showed AJo for pure air. Based on my own analysis I really thought I had the best hand when I got to the river, but his shove just scared the crap out of me. I often have the "OMG they are bluffing me" syndrome when I play higher, and I didn't want to end up blowing my stack with a 2nd best like I have before. I'd end up folding in this same spot vs. a lot of regs at 200NL, but that's due to history.

I guess an easy call for most (maybe even for me on paper if I saw it objectively later) but this was the VERY FIRST HAND I sat down! Plus the flop action would make me think one of the 2 callers had a 4 (or at least to tread lightly)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexos

Ya that stove does seem crazy. 128 samples, isn't that kinda low? I mean how much does stoving help here, you can't stove in '4way pot,3way action to turn, UTG shoves river'. Like Alexos said, when 2 players call the flop vs.me in villain's shoes I'd assume one of them likely had a 4 and the other one just had a pair. I almost couldn't get past this thought when he shoved river. I kept thinking "he has to put a ton of 4s in my range, how can he shove?"

Meeloche: I assumed Villain would view my flat in a 4 way pot (I flatted after button also called) as a sign of strength and be looking for 2 streets of value unless he had a boat or top trips. I'd never consider bluffing further in this spot as villain on turn, so perhaps that is also part of the disconnect here. I don't understand villain's play, but I guess that's why he has won like 150K more than me in the last yr...

Anyway, I know perhaps not the most exciting spot, but I appreciate the replies!

meeloche

09-14-2009, 09:20 PM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 2,131

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

Meeloche: I assumed Villain would view my flat in a 4 way pot (I flatted after button also called) as a sign of strength and be looking for 2 streets of value unless he had a boat or top trips. I'd never consider bluffing further in this spot as villain on turn, so perhaps that is also part of the disconnect here. I don't understand villain's play, but I guess that's why he has won like 150K more than me in the last yr...

Well his bluffing frequency on the turn and river are probably identical cause your range looks a lot like a call turn (cause its such an awesome card to bluff on) and fold river type so bluffing turn and giving up on river is likely bad. His sizing is also kinda relevant to that, whether he's aware of it or not as he could have bet bigger on the turn to have a smaller river shove to induce more calls. Instead he bet smaller on the turn to leave a psb on river.

Ravageur

11-10-2009, 01:39 AM

#12 (permalink)

Official Montreal SwampRat
Full House

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if i'm villain in this hand, i would give up on river (or not even fire turn to begin with because that overcall is the nuts so often). But on the flip side, I really think for OP the river is semi close, because do we really think villain is shoving AA here? Shoudl he be? Seems like it's polarized between air and 22/99/KK/A4. Maybe i'm underestimating ppl going for thin value in agressive games though.

Oh and yes i'm trying to bump HSNL threads, ppl need to post hands (mine all suck and tilt ppl because i'm a nit).

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Genitruc

11-10-2009, 06:46 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Posts: 4,463

Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

whoa

as played this seems the furthest thing from a fold in the history of things-that-are-far-from-folds

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

gabe

11-11-2009, 05:01 AM

#14 (permalink)

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gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

u gotta call after checking it thrice

dsmithpokerpro

12-11-2009, 08:21 AM

#15 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2009

Posts: 9

eh......i'd call. i don't think he's good enough to value shove.

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Call all in with bottom trips on river?

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