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ilikeaces86
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03-08-2007, 12:16 AM
Post subject: Boring 5-10 KKK hand
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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5-10 NL 6 max
I am on the button with   3 limpers ahead of me I make it 50 called BB calls 3 limpers call. so pot 250 in pot going to flop
Flop comes out   
Check check check check, I check
Turn the beatiful  4 checks I bet 225 into 250 fold call call fold.
River  First guy bets 275 next guy cold calls I fold.
Super Standard or what?
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gabe
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pot odds yo
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Shouldn't we be raising more pre?
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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It's the cold caller that kills you here, ya.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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cold caller doesnt raise original bettor to hope you make a pot odds call with a worse hand right? aka sklansky dollahs etc
Id feel bad folding this but guess id do it.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
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gf
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gabe
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you guys saying fold......count the size of the pot
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
you guys saying fold......count the size of the pot
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dont reads> pot odds/equity sometimes?
Id call if there was only one guy betting but bet and call looks yucky for us surely despite pot odds?
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
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You are getting 5.3:1. You need to beat both guys 20% of the time to call. Lets assume (incorrectly, but just as an approximation) that both guys have equivalent strength hands - i.e, some range that includes crapola and flushes).
You need to be good ~56% vs. either player in this case (1-.56)^2 = .2 Now maybe you are 80% good against the lead better (might be bluffing) but you have to be better than 25% good against the 2nd guy, and I'm not sure you are.
Actually, I think it's pretty close - so, by definition "not standard" fold.
What could the cold caller have? Not AA/55/88/AK really he has a flush, KX, JJ, QQ, or 33. Most of those 1-pair hands seem pretty improblable... there's only 1 K left, and it's not a heart or diamond.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
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I just felt like their ranges were heavily waited towards flushes from the feeling I got during the hand.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
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does the smooth caller change anything? doesn't he raise all flushes?
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johnny_fish
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First bet seems like a block, could be lower set or 2p. I'd expect a (backdoor!) flush to raise the river. Seems like a call to me.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
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its from sklansky isnt it?
If you have a strong hand and want to make more money with people to act behind you, you call and hope they like the pot odds enough. Whereas if you dont want to showdown or think a weaker second best hand might call a bet then you raise.
Id also assume tht because Aces is going to have a tight image opps know he can make a fold if they get aggro on the river, whereas if they stay passive he may make a call for pot odds regardless, if that makes sense.
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gabe
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Moderator
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you are overthinking it
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
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Quote:
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8. Dont make big laydowns. By the time you can actually think about making a big laydown you are getting too good of a price at the pot to fold.(I.E dont fold sets)
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Straight from you. But yeah I understand where you're coming from.
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elipsesjeff
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
its from sklansky isnt it?
If you have a strong hand and want to make more money with people to act behind you, you call and hope they like the pot odds enough. Whereas if you dont want to showdown or think a weaker second best hand might call a bet then you raise
Id also assume tht because Aces is going to have a tight image opps know he can make a fold if they get aggro on the river, whereas if they stay passive he may make a call for pot odds regardless, if that makes sense.
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This is true in a LHE game where you're not going to get more than 1 bet if you raise regardless, the whole point of the theory is to not open up a new betting round for your opponent to 3bet you with.
In a NL game where you aren't going to lose just 1 BB, but instead possible 25-30 BB. Also, the likelihood of an overcall in NL is much less than LHE, let alone at a HS table.
OP: I don't think I can fold this even if villain showed me one diamond or told me he had the flush (and I believed him).
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
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Harry
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Full House
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i call
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PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!
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Phantaroth
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
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if we think guy 1 is thinking guy 2 also has % chance of thinking guy 1 is bluffing.
CALLLLLL
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
its from sklansky isnt it?
If you have a strong hand and want to make more money with people to act behind you, you call and hope they like the pot odds enough. Whereas if you dont want to showdown or think a weaker second best hand might call a bet then you raise
Id also assume tht because Aces is going to have a tight image opps know he can make a fold if they get aggro on the river, whereas if they stay passive he may make a call for pot odds regardless, if that makes sense.
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This is true in a LHE game where you're not going to get more than 1 bet if you raise regardless, the whole point of the theory is to not open up a new betting round for your opponent to 3bet you with.
In a NL game where you aren't going to lose just 1 BB, but instead possible 25-30 BB. Also, the likelihood of an overcall in NL is much less than LHE, let alone at a HS table.
OP: I don't think I can fold this even if villain showed me one diamond or told me he had the flush (and I believed him). |
in general then, do you think its bad to assume that the cold caller is aware of this in a NL game, even if it is fairly high stakes NL?
What bother me is that cold caller could quite easily have 78diamonds, but meh i still pretty much agree it really hard to fold.
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Trikflow77
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Full House
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i think folding here is gross.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trikflow77
i think folding here is gross.
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Grosser than your moms vagina?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trikflow77
i think folding here is gross.
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don't u just play loluments?
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Trikflow77
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Full House
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trikflow77
i think folding here is gross.
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don't u just play loluments? |
No.
And classy isf, classy.
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pokerroomace
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 783
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you're getting like 6 to 1 here. you win 1 in 7 of these don't you?
maybe:
player 1 is making a blocking bet with 2p. and player 2 has TP or also has 2p.
there are so many ways that nobody has a flush and you have the best hand here. you must good 1 in 7. no?
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UG
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Moderator
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we want results!
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
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First guy had Qxdiamonds for the nut flush other guy had 10d8d.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
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if gabe is serious about you taking the grosser than ur moms vagina thing offensively than sorry.
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gabe
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Moderator
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i never said he took it offensively (i dont know if he did or not) but it was still a very tasteless comment
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
i never said he took it offensively (i dont know if he did or not) but it was still a very tasteless comment
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When did FTR become so serious (sorry i cant sense sarcasm from typing)? I don't know your mom trik i was just making a joke. Sorry if tasteless jokes are the "Ze Oaus this season."
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
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It's only $275, seems like a no-brainer call, especially since the player who called the bet didn't raise. The question of whether or not he "should" raise with a flush is irrelevant, the fact is that almost all players would.
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trikflow77
i think folding here is gross.
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Grosser than your moms vagina? |
ISF, these guys are talking poker here. This is not the Community forum. Get my drift?
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Trikflow77
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: im so asian
Posts: 1,460
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
i never said he took it offensively (i dont know if he did or not) but it was still a very tasteless comment
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When did FTR become so serious (sorry i cant sense sarcasm from typing)? I don't know your mom trik i was just making a joke. Sorry if tasteless jokes are the "Ze Oaus this season." |
It was so off topic, tasteless, and made no sense whatsoever.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
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nh sir
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
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nh
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
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wow, the maturity level is off the charts.
nice laydown, btw.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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gabe
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Moderator
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people saying nh/nld are being results oriented
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
people saying nh/nld are being results oriented
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Ya I am thinking along the same lines but at the time I considered the villains passive donks. So I thought it was unlikely one of them didn't have a flush.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
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thats probably worth including in OP!
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
thats probably worth including in OP!
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Sorry its been so long since I posted a hand I forgot!
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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how does this hand if UTG checks then mp player bets?
Are we still calling then?
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
how does this hand if UTG checks then mp player bets?
Are we still calling then?
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Then UTG with nuts makes bank! Yeah, I think we call, and then fold when UTG raises. I don't think c/r the river with the nutz is a great move, after all, we expect the lower b/d flush to raise...
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zenbitz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
how does this hand if UTG checks then mp player bets?
Are we still calling then?
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Then UTG with nuts makes bank! Yeah, I think we call, and then fold when UTG raises. I don't think c/r the river with the nutz is a great move, after all, we expect the lower b/d flush to raise... |
same idea though, does mp with a middle flush find a fold to a medium/small sized c/r on river?
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
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my attention was brought to this thread for the wrong reason, but Im glad it was. This is a fun hand, ty for posting.
fwiw I probably am snap calling this cuz of odds, but its def an interesting hand and your logic seems to make sense.
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Lukie
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yeah, I have my work cut out for me. (not talking about the hand but the discussion that followed)
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