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Iwind
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05-15-2006, 06:27 PM
Post subject: Bluffing with $1,000 bet on river, 6max 1000NL.
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP ($1691)
Button ($1305.50)
SB ($990)
Hero ($3036.34)
UTG ($3145.33)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 7 , 8. SB posts a blind of $5.
UTG raises to $35, 3 folds, Hero calls $25.
Flop: ($75) 7 , Q, K (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $75, Hero raises to $200, UTG calls $125.
Turn: ($475) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $380, UTG calls $380.
River: ($1235) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $1000
I can't really put him on a strong hand here just calling down on that drawheavy board, what do you think? What would you put him on and what kinda hand would it take for you to call the $1,000 bet on the river. It's the biggest bluff I've made so far, GOOD or BAD?
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yorib
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 281
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I don't play at these stakes, but I'd think he has AA/AK given his pot size bet and subsequant calling.
If I'm him, I think you have 77 with a minor chance of JT.
I think the story you've told is beleivable (set of 7 / straight). I'd fold with anything less than 2 pair.
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arkana
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,109
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How good is this opponent? Can he fold big pairs (can he fold AA here)? How tricky is he (capable of just calling the turn with a set)? How often have you seen him raise from UTG?
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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If I were him I'd be wondering why you made such a small check-raise with a set, given that there were straight and flush draws on board. Then again, whenever I call someone down based on this logic, they always seem to have a set, anyway.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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i dotn think he has KQ, set, or JT with his turn call. i push or check depending on how good i think he is.
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Iwind
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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He's not one of the best players around, but I thought he was capable of folding AK here, maybe not AA, but I think he would have reraised with AA here, he is kinda aggressive, so I thought these calls looked very weak. He's been raising from UTG quite a lot, so his range here is wide. The checkraise might have been a bit small, it's close to 3x though so I don't think it's too small to be respected.
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Iwind
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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UTG calls $1,000
And wins $3,200 with K9o
I guess I gave him too much credit, thought he'd fold a hand like this on the flop for sure, and he should have folded it even catching his two pair. Oh well, up 5-6 buyins today so I'm happy anyways. 
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iwind
UTG calls $1,000
And wins $3,200 with K9o
I guess I gave him too much credit, thought he'd fold a hand like this on the flop for sure, and he should have folded it even catching his two pair.
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Oh, c'mon - at least give the guy credit for PWNTING you. You are an agressive player, right? You might bluff raise with crap on the flop, let alone semi-bluff check/raise, right??
Villain made 2 mediocre calls for 1/30th of BOTH stacks... implied odds baby.
He's probably over posting at RiverTurnFlop.com how he made a sick call on a laggy bastard!
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ender555
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05-16-2006, 12:32 AM
Post subject: Re: Bluffing with $1,000 bet on river, 6max 1000NL.
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#9 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 647
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I didn't read others post Iwind, but I'll give my thoughts. Firstly, you have a great image for this, you don't get out of line too often, and I have not caught you making very big bluffs like this (im guessing neither have others). Secondly, you're clearly representing a large hand. At the very worst 2 pair here, as i'm almost positive you would C-C river with AA. So, now we need to know information about the other player. Does he like to make hero calls? Is he good? Would he fold a Q9s/K9s here? Does he over slowplay hands?
All in all, I think i might bet a little less here, something like 850-875. I think you might run into a scared / poorly played set of 7's here or slowplayed 10Js. Everything else from a sane player will insta muck.
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Iwind
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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Well, I might check-raise the flop on a bluff, but I very seldom keep it up on turn, let alone fire again huge on the river. I'm continuationbetting a lot, but I usually give up if it seems the other guy has something he likes. Sure he made a sick call and PWNT me lol, I'm not quite sure how much thought there was behind it though.
And you're right ender, I don't get caught making very big bluffs, because I don't make them often. And this guy had not seen me make any bluffs before, so I really don't understand why he kept calling me down here, I am for sure representing a very strong hand. I thought he would fold anything but top two or better here, and I was pretty sure he had none of those hands.
All in all I should not have made this big bluff against this player though, better stay away from stuff like this unless I know the player real well. Thanks for feedback anways.
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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yeah you can always debate the size of the bet, but i like it.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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if he didn't have 2p, he probably would have folded. Depending on how confidently he calls that turn bet, i think you should reconsider a river bluff.
i've stacked many people at the lower levels by correctly reading their aggression for crap. It just isn't good against the right type of players.
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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spino1i
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
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Why are you playing this high of stakes without knowing your opponents very well? (at least get a HUD and give us some stats)
I would never make a multi-street bluff against an unknown here. You need to know the villain very well before making this sort of move.
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BR now: $106900
Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spino1i
Why are you playing this high of stakes without knowing your opponents very well? (at least get a HUD and give us some stats)
I would never make a multi-street bluff against an unknown here. You need to know the villain very well before making this sort of move.
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You'd die if party banned PAHUD.
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spino1i
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ItDepends
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spino1i
Why are you playing this high of stakes without knowing your opponents very well? (at least get a HUD and give us some stats)
I would never make a multi-street bluff against an unknown here. You need to know the villain very well before making this sort of move.
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You'd die if party banned PAHUD. |
No... they have no way of knowing whether or not im running it. Ever heard of something called Process Guard?
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BR now: $106900
Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
Goal: $125000 for $25/50 NL live
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spino1i
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ItDepends
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spino1i
Why are you playing this high of stakes without knowing your opponents very well? (at least get a HUD and give us some stats)
I would never make a multi-street bluff against an unknown here. You need to know the villain very well before making this sort of move.
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You'd die if party banned PAHUD. |
No... they have no way of knowing whether or not im running it. Ever heard of something called Process Guard? |
Yep, they can get around that 
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spino1i
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ItDepends
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spino1i
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ItDepends
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spino1i
Why are you playing this high of stakes without knowing your opponents very well? (at least get a HUD and give us some stats)
I would never make a multi-street bluff against an unknown here. You need to know the villain very well before making this sort of move.
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You'd die if party banned PAHUD. |
No... they have no way of knowing whether or not im running it. Ever heard of something called Process Guard? |
Yep, they can get around that |
Care to explain how? I know my own computer better than Party does..
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BR now: $106900
Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
Goal: $125000 for $25/50 NL live
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Rootkits
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Rootkits
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and they could just not let you play with them walled in.
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spino1i
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ItDepends
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Rootkits
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and they could just not let you play with them walled in. |
What if the wall is nothing more than a mirror, showing them a false array of programs. Im just saying, if its a difference of 10BB/100 winrate (which I think PAHUD gives me an edge of at least that), at the stakes I play, im willing to put a shit load of effort into making sure they dont find me out. And I have plenty of comp sci major friends that would help me out in this endeavor. Im not worried.
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BR now: $106900
Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
Goal: $125000 for $25/50 NL live
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Iwind
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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If they ban PAHUD, wich I hope they will not do as it is a very usefull program, I hope they will be putting a lot of efford into catching people who are still using it and ban them from their site. I am using it now, and that is an option everyone have, but if they ban the program I would certainly stop using it. Using banned programs to get an edge over other players is cheating, no better than multiaccounting and various forms of colluding. I hope you dont mean that if the difference in winrate is high enough it is ok to cheat, cause that is certainly no excuse.
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ItDepends
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spino1i
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ItDepends
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Rootkits
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and they could just not let you play with them walled in. |
What if the wall is nothing more than a mirror, showing them a false array of programs. Im just saying, if its a difference of 10BB/100 winrate (which I think PAHUD gives me an edge of at least that), at the stakes I play, im willing to put a shit load of effort into making sure they dont find me out. And I have plenty of comp sci major friends that would help me out in this endeavor. Im not worried. |
So you must be killing your game, or a losing player without pahud? Eitherway, I'm not saying they would ever ban pahud, but you should learn to memorize your opponent without some program. What are you going to do at the wsop when you don't have stats right in front of you?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Blizzard has one guy (although he's REALLY smart) and two researchers working on detecting cheat programs. Process guard won't to shit to protect you from us.
I'm CERTAIN Party & Stars has far more than that.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Why would they ban poker ace anyway? Its the same thing as gametime and playerview and I've heard no such rumors on the banning of poker ace.
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