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Renton
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08-04-2008, 08:43 AM
Post subject: 5/10 weirdness with 98s
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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I'm taking a shot at 5/10 six max, prob unknown to most of these players and have taggy stats for a small sample. Also i've been minraising pre if it matters.
100bb effective stacks
Folds to ooooooooooh in the co who opens 30. I don't really know him other than that he's a tag 2p2er.
I flat call   in the BB.
Flop :As:   Pot 70$
I check, he bets 50
What is best here? I guess leading, c/c and c/r/f are the options.
I chose to c/r to 160, folding to a 3-bet. He calls.
Turn: :As:  Pot: 390$
I think definitely the standard play is to bet, I chose to get trixy and check. He checked behind.
River :As:  Pot: 390$
Vbet this? If so what amount? Do u call a shove?
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I definitely don't value bet this. You have both the 9s and 8s, and the 7s and 5s are on board. So the only spades worse than yours that didn't make a flush on the turn are like 6s5o or some nonsense hand like that.
I'd rather check to induce a bluff here than value bet, given how few worse spades than yours there are.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Our hand kinda looks like a pure bluff we just gave up on so I'd probably c/f the river.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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isn't RR preflop in this scenario better than calling?
Also, c/r on this flop seems too spewy to me, you're trying to rep the 7 or AK here (which you would have RR pre probably in his mind) so your hand range is too polarized to try and semi bluff OOP here.
I don't know why you checked turn either going for double c/r?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Our hand kinda looks like a pure bluff we just gave up on so I'd probably c/f the river.
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doesn't compute
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
I definitely don't value bet this. You have both the 9s and 8s, and the 7s and 5s are on board. So the only spades worse than yours that didn't make a flush on the turn are like 6s5o or some nonsense hand like that.
I'd rather check to induce a bluff here than value bet, given how few worse spades than yours there are.
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why would he turn a pair of aces into a bluff?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Our hand kinda looks like a pure bluff we just gave up on so I'd probably c/f the river.
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doesn't compute |
I don't think he will value bet an Ace on the river because we either fold or call him with some random spade, he doesn't have a 7, and he very seldom has a hand with such little showdown value that he tries to bluff us off our hand which could be a bluff with slightly more showdown value. Therefore his river betting range is essentially a spade better than ours.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i said doesn't compute because i don't understand why us probably having air means we should c/f a hand that is clearly good the majority of the time. Shouldn't we bet so he'll put us on air and call with an ace?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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lol sorry I just totally levelled myself in my posts.
So basically our range looks ridiculously polarised and hence we should bet/fold right?
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clarkatroid
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 55
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the turn check is really bad. when he calls your flop check raise, his range is polarised to mostly a decent ace, some trips and a small percentage of flush draws, some we beat and some we dont. He isnt folding a lot of that range, ie trips, big aces, big aces with a spade etc.
you made your hand, but its weak. you must must must bet on this turn for value and to protect what is likely to be the best but vulnerable hand
as played check call i suppose on river, but dont be happy about it
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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bet turn so they can peel again with ace with a spade, i bet river with my entire range here i think
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i understand that turn is a bet, i just don't see a problem with mixing it up here occasionally. This is generally a great spot to follow through if i was bluffing on flop, so I don't see why it can be correspondingly a good spot to mix in checking with a big hand.
Also gabe, what bet sizing do you choose, are you folding to a raise?
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clarkatroid
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 55
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you said yourself you are taking a shot, you are unknown at the table. now is not the time to be mixing it up and taking tricky lines. If you are playing v regs with tons of history then yeah occasionally throw in a different line, but this is a bad spot to be getting cute.
As played a lot of decent 5/10 players will blow you off this hand now with a worse holding and town you otherwise
my 2 cents 
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by clarkatroid
you said yourself you are taking a shot, you are unknown at the table. now is not the time to be mixing it up and taking tricky lines. If you are playing v regs with tons of history then yeah occasionally throw in a different line, but this is a bad spot to be getting cute.
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I definitely disagree with this. Showing down a trickily played flush here as a first impression would seriously skew ooooooooooh's perception of me, and he would likely make incorrect adjustments in the future. I definitely think making unstandard plays can benefit you when you are relatively unknown, so long as you will be playing them in the future.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by clarkatroid
As played a lot of decent 5/10 players will blow you off this hand now with a worse holding and town you otherwise
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Unless villain is VERY VERY good, I doubt he's capable of both of those things.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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i think this is one of those spots you dont need to balance your plays, just your hands..if that makes any sense. if i was checking this particular hand less than 15% of the time.
id bet $300 ish and get it in. maybe on your account (not sure how regs view you) its better to fold, i cant say
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i bet 220 or something and called it off when he shoved in like 3 seconds, he had AT with no spade.
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clarkatroid
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 55
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if he holds ace/big spade he does not need to be very very good to town you. he needs to be very very bad not to. likewise a higher flush. if he holds a naked 7, or an ace with no spade and pots it or more, this puts you in an tough spot considering you have no read on villain.
If you want to mix it up, i believe the correct play to balance your image is to 3 bet this pre flop. The hand also becomes a lot easier to play as you would no doubt be all in by the turn and happy about it
bottom line - the turn check is like throwing dollars down the drain
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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check/decide river, betting is extremely bad unless he looks u up with a bare ace med often and never turns it into a bluff
id probably c/f not knowing his game too well
also ur turn check is just disgusting cmooooonnn rentoooon
and i think c/c or c/r flop r both strong with c/c being slightly bettter vs ur average TAG, leading sucks unless hes a specific kind of spewface where u jsut auto gain 2 bets with his ATC
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