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pocketfours
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12-14-2007, 10:20 AM
Post subject: 5/10: weird spot, call for probable split?
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Villain is unknown 31/19, not very good. KK is in his range, but not in mine. I don't see him having a worse hand here and I got the feeling that he was slowplaying the flop (AK/KK). Turn check? River?
Seat 1: SB ($1,094.00 in chips)
Seat 4: BB ($1,050.00 in chips)
Seat 7: UTG ($774.00 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO [ AD,JD ] ($1,210.00 in chips)
Seat 9: CUTOFF ($1,113.00 in chips)
Seat 10: BUTTON ($2,365.45 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($5), BB posts blind ($10).
PRE-FLOP
UTG bets $20, HERO calls $20, CUTOFF folds, BUTTON folds, SB calls $15, BB calls $10.
FLOP [board cards AS,AC,KH ]
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, HERO bets $55, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $55.
TURN [board cards AS,AC,KH,KS ]
UTG checks, HERO checks.
RIVER [board cards AS,AC,KH,KS,JH ] (pot $190)
UTG bets $699 and is all-in, HERO...
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ChrisTheFish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Huddersfield, England
Posts: 492
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Hahah, i looks so much like KK with that river bet... i dunno if you can fold tbh, probably not.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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One combination of KK and 4 combinations of AK, so if you think that's his entire range, it's a fold. If you think he could have AQ or anything else then it's a call. I usually call but I guess it's close.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
One combination of KK and 2 combinations of AK, so if you think that's his entire range, it's a fold. If you think he could have AQ or anything else then it's a call. I usually call but I guess it's close.
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FYP, and fold
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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oops, missed op's ace 
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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The only reason I'd call is if my donation was tax deductable.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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What hands are we shoving if we are villain? Isn't a good player supposed to shove any ace and KK here?
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
What hands are we shoving if we are villain? Isn't a good player supposed to shove any ace and KK here?
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But shouldn't it be the opposite as well. Any good player should go for a check raise here, because any hand that can CALL a shove will bet themself? Like if he checked to you, you'd bet here right?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
What hands are we shoving if we are villain? Isn't a good player supposed to shove any ace and KK here?
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But shouldn't it be the opposite as well. Any good player should go for a check raise here, because any hand that can CALL a shove will bet themself? Like if he checked to you, you'd bet here right? |
I would absolutely not even consider betting if he checked tbh.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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I don't really think a villain who raises min UTG is very smart, but if you really think he is shobing all the aces in his range, then i mean i guess its a call, i would never make that assumption though.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
What hands are we shoving if we are villain? Isn't a good player supposed to shove any ace and KK here?
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this is a rly easy fold and its not close
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
What hands are we shoving if we are villain? Isn't a good player supposed to shove any ace and KK here?
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But shouldn't it be the opposite as well. Any good player should go for a check raise here, because any hand that can CALL a shove will bet themself? Like if he checked to you, you'd bet here right? |
I would absolutely not even consider betting if he checked tbh. |
wow really? Would anyone else check through here?
Certainly there can be room to get value from a bare K here?
I would definitely be betting in this spot of checked to... is that bad?
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Risk $700 to win $95.. so he has to have KK less than 12% of the time for a call to be any good. Fold..
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
What hands are we shoving if we are villain? Isn't a good player supposed to shove any ace and KK here?
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this is a rly easy fold and its not close |
Well yes I did fold and thought it was trivial, but against a good player who knows that AA/KK isn't in my range, I just wonder what kind of odds would be needed to call?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
What hands are we shoving if we are villain? Isn't a good player supposed to shove any ace and KK here?
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this is a rly easy fold and its not close |
Well yes I did fold and thought it was trivial, but against a good player who knows that AA/KK isn't in my range, I just wonder what kind of odds would be needed to call? |
well hes just not gonna float you oop on this board so after the flop call we have to narrow his range considerably. which leaves a majority of hands which are slowplaying- and then river just looks like a trap "lol he might have an ace sick slowplay ME" so against anyone who you suspect is thinking on this level id imagine I fold if Im not getting 2 to 1 or so.
against a good player who is shoving any ace or KK we kind of have to ask ourselves why he wouldnt bet this flop with a made hand given second best ones are out there and he would cbet this flop from utg with a high frequency. so really im going to put him on either ace/rag that didnt want to build a large pot- or KKKK. so really i think 2 to 1 is about the break-even point without doing the math.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
What hands are we shoving if we are villain? Isn't a good player supposed to shove any ace and KK here?
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this is a rly easy fold and its not close |
Well yes I did fold and thought it was trivial, but against a good player who knows that AA/KK isn't in my range, I just wonder what kind of odds would be needed to call? |
well hes just not gonna float you oop on this board so after the flop call we have to narrow his range considerably. which leaves a majority of hands which are slowplaying- and then river just looks like a trap "lol he might have an ace sick slowplay ME" so against anyone who you suspect is thinking on this level id imagine I fold if Im not getting 2 to 1 or so.
against a good player who is shoving any ace or KK we kind of have to ask ourselves why he wouldnt bet this flop with a made hand given second best ones are out there and he would cbet this flop from utg with a high frequency. so really im going to put him on either ace/rag that didnt want to build a large pot- or KKKK. so really i think 2 to 1 is about the break-even point without doing the math. |
2 to 1 sounds decent. Don't forget AK still...
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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If villain has 4 kings, their turn check has got to be the worst turn check I have seen in my whole life.
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chris_k14
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Would he raise preflop that small with KK AK or are these his standard raises? If not i think you have to call river as any ace could be in his range if he is a true donkey.
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