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mcatdog
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06-28-2008, 06:31 PM
Post subject: 5-10 very deep, trips no kicker
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($3894)
Button ($957)
SB ($175)
BB ($959)
UTG ($940)
MP ($4626.80)
Preflop: Hero is CO with T , 9.
1 fold, MP raises to $20, Hero calls $20, Button calls $20, 2 folds.
Flop: ($75) T , K, T (3 players)
Final Pot: $75
MP bets $40, Hero calls or raises to how much?
I'm taking a shot because MP is a whale. He's raising really wide here; I've seen him show up with stuff like J3s. He's also a huge station who never folds a pair after the flop, but he also sometimes makes random aggressive moves too. For example he 4-bet 44 earlier and flopped a set against the Button in this hand.
I think if I raise here he might call or even 3-bet with a king, but obv I'm usually beat if a ton of money goes into the pot and I don't want to stack off this deep, so should I just call?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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How do you know he's a whale? 4-betting 44 preflop and opening a wide range are certainly no proof.
If you don't want to play for stacks with this hand (which is probably correct), then just let him keep betting until he stops, which is when you can fire. If he decides to c/r, then just call him down. Good board and hand to play fairly passively this deep IP. Just don't let any street go check-check.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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He's a whale because he was a huge station who never folded a pair postflop. He recently lost half a stack limp-calling with J5s and donking the J8x flop for 1/2 pot, bet-calling the 8 turn and calling a river bet. Another time he lost $300 betting 1/2 pot on every street with bottom pair. I didn't know what to do because he would never fold a king to just a flop raise but he might 3-bet me with one. I'm not used to playing this deep.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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If you aren't comfortable you should probably leave the table, but this hand is easy to play if you don't want to play for stacks. You've got position so you have pretty much full control over the size of the pot, unless he starts overbetting of course.
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The Odds God
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 252
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Let him keep betting this deep. Even a fish won't stack off for 400BB with just a king (or will he?). I would call call and then minraise safe rivers. Raising flop is risky if you won't felt it.
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The secret to success in poker is to rig the odds in your favor.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Yah I agree with P4's, that calling is fine here and betting any street if he checks to you.
I doubt a whale will stack for 400bb's.
Even better, if he has QJ then one of his outs gives you a boat, so you don't have to worry as much about letting him get there with draws.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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OK so I maybe made a mistake and raised to $140 (can't be that bad though) and to my surprise, the Button cold-called and the fish folded, turn 8  . Button wasn't that great of a player; he wasn't a station or anything but he wasn't aggressive enough IMO and missed some really easy value bets. I'm pretty sure I have to check and fold to a bet, but expect it to go check-check a lot, but just making sure?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I'd bet/fold against the button's cold call. I still think you're ok against his range given the dynamic and you're only 100bb deep. If you think his cold call is Tx then check/fold is fine.
The problem I have with check/folding the turn is that the same guys who miss value bets won't check behind on a draw.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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im raising flop all day and trying to get all in unless he shows aggression or the board comes dirty or timing tells make me sketched out
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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wow how could you guys not agree about the flop play: RAISE. Just because you may have to fold eventually doesn't necessarily mean that you should play pot control.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
wow how could you guys not agree about the flop play: RAISE. Just because you may have to fold eventually doesn't necessarily mean that you should play pot control.
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given reads i agree with this for sure. vs good players i would almost never raise flop in this spot
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
wow how could you guys not agree about the flop play: RAISE. Just because you may have to fold eventually doesn't necessarily mean that you should play pot control.
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given reads i agree with this for sure. vs good players i would almost never raise flop in this spot |
I can't say I agree that I'd never raise this flop versus a good player. Honestly, I probably would rarely call. It doesn't make much sense range wise.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I was more advocating calling the flop because of OP's description of villain
"He's raising really wide here; I've seen him show up with stuff like J3s. He's also a huge station who never folds a pair after the flop, but he also sometimes makes random aggressive moves too"
If he's showing up with a very wide range here, I'd rather let him keep bluffing at me. Obviously if I knew he had some hand like AA/AK here I'd be raising this up hard, but that seems to be only a small part of his range.
Raising this flop is pretty standard, but if my read was that he was spewy/aggro/bluffy then calling isn't so bad. Actually calling in a spot like this looks a LOT like we have a K, which might induce villain into bluffing us even more trying to rep a T and get us off our hand.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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u guys r way too deep lets get all in
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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