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5/10 tptk on dry board

  
 
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meeloche
Old 08-09-2009, 08:12 PM     Post subject: 5/10 tptk on dry board #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain is ur myjob. I've never played with him before today I've only seen him play higher but it seemed the games were running around him so I don't really know what to think of him. This session his stats were like 22/19 in line ish over an irrelevant sample.

Hand one happened like 10 minutes before hand 2. I think its obvious he was just bluffing but I'm not sure how this affects his thinking in hand 2. I'm most interested in thoughts on hand 2 with hand 1 in mind as history.

1) Button is a huge fish in hand 1 fyi

No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Hero (BB) ($1000)
UTG ($1109)
MP ($1440)
CO ($1409)
Button ($972)
SB ($2827)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, J
2 folds, CO bets $30, Button calls $30, 1 fold, Hero calls $20

Flop: ($95) 9, J, 5 (3 players)
Hero bets $70, CO calls $70, 1 fold

Turn: ($235) J (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $150, Hero calls $150

River: ($535) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $350, Hero raises $750 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $1235


No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Hero (MP) ($1607)
Button ($1049)
SB ($1000)
BB ($1039)
UTG ($2822)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K, A
1 fold, Hero bets $30, 1 fold, SB calls $25, 1 fold

Flop: ($70) 7, 7, K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $50, SB raises $140, Hero calls $90

Turn: ($350) 5 (2 players)
SB bets $210, Hero calls $210

River: ($770) 2 (2 players)
SB bets $620 (All-In), Hero?
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 08-09-2009, 11:49 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Obv fold river.

I've played with him a lot, I don't think he's ever bluffing in this spot he doesn't do anything like that.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 08-10-2009, 06:54 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Yeah fold river.
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meeloche
Old 08-11-2009, 12:52 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Is he ever on the level where he doesn't expect me to fold a King so he can have KQ sometimes or is that out of the question?



 
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 08-11-2009, 04:54 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeloche
Is he ever on the level where he doesn't expect me to fold a King so he can have KQ sometimes or is that out of the question?
maybe but he'd probably think about it on the river.
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pocketfours
Old 08-11-2009, 08:02 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 I don't know the opponent but with this dynamic I would either fold the turn or not fold at all. I probably would't fold at all though (again without knowing opponent). I wouldn't be very surprised at all to see KQ/KJ, even if he shoves real fast.

I actually think it's pretty pointless to post opponent sn since it skews the discussion.
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griffey24
Old 08-11-2009, 01:07 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
I don't know the opponent but with this dynamic I would either fold the turn or not fold at all. I probably would't fold at all though (again without knowing opponent). I wouldn't be very surprised at all to see KQ/KJ, even if he shoves real fast.
Don't you think the fact that we call the flop and turn makes it less likely that he'll bluff the river? A lot of people might run a flop/turn bluff, but will shut down on rivers on these kind of boards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
I actually think it's pretty pointless to post opponent sn since it skews the discussion.
It's supposed to skew the discussion though, this kind of spot is pretty opponent based.
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Old 08-11-2009, 03:08 PM #8 (permalink)  
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yeah well OP didn't play with him until the day this discussion was posted so he doesn't have the same reads
so what's the point of saying "I know this guy he doesn't run bluffs like these" when OP didn't have this information during the hand? it only helps in future hands vs. this particular opponent.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 08-11-2009, 03:14 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
yeah well OP didn't play with him until the day this discussion was posted so he doesn't have the same reads
so what's the point of saying "I know this guy he doesn't run bluffs like these" when OP didn't have this information during the hand? it only helps in future hands vs. this particular opponent.
Well fine, with only reads posted its still a very clear fold. This isn't a call versus 99% of players.

I have a hard time folding the turn but it may very well be correct.
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meeloche
Old 08-11-2009, 08:13 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
I actually think it's pretty pointless to post opponent sn since it skews the discussion.
It's supposed to skew the discussion though, this kind of spot is pretty opponent based.
Yeah I'm sorry that the community loses out when advice is opponent specific but I'd rather learn something since I am likely to play against him again. Frankly its gonna be rare where you're posting a hand that isn't opponent specific if you're playing mid or high stakes.

As for the hand I obviously level myself when I'm playing bad. ty for the responses.
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nutsinho
Old 08-11-2009, 08:37 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
I don't know the opponent but with this dynamic I would either fold the turn or not fold at all.
wait what? after we cbet, call a c/r and turn barrel, our range has a shitton of 7x in it. A 22/19 Sb flatting range vs a CO 3x open has very very few. Urmyjob is a thinking player ( a 5/10 game would never be running around him) so why would we want to call the river with the bottom of our range?
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pocketfours
Old 08-12-2009, 08:30 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
I don't know the opponent but with this dynamic I would either fold the turn or not fold at all.
wait what? after we cbet, call a c/r and turn barrel, our range has a shitton of 7x in it. A 22/19 Sb flatting range vs a CO 3x open has very very few. Urmyjob is a thinking player ( a 5/10 game would never be running around him) so why would we want to call the river with the bottom of our range?
OP said it looked like the games were running around him. If he's good ofc fold. If he's bad/spewy I fold turn or call river with this dynamic. Vs unknown with solid stats and no dynamic I fold turn.
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AngelBoy
Old 08-13-2009, 02:00 PM #13 (permalink)  
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This is so strange opp betting as for me - becouse if he had set - why he dont bet so little for opp call on the river - full never loose this situation - and it is not slowplay with fullhouse - why he go allin on the river - maybe to take this pot? offcouse - we must fold this situation - fold for call is next i think (vs this opp)sorry for my eng
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 08-13-2009, 06:55 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 wouldn't SB not want to c/r KJ/KQ on this flop unless he felt you would play for stacks with JJ/KT? basically does c/r this flop turn KQ/KJ into a bluff versus normal stack off ranges? i don't see why he would want to c/r flop rather than c/c with those hands.
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griffey24
Old 08-13-2009, 07:33 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
wouldn't SB not want to c/r KJ/KQ on this flop unless he felt you would play for stacks with JJ/KT? basically does c/r this flop turn KQ/KJ into a bluff versus normal stack off ranges? i don't see why he would want to c/r flop rather than c/c with those hands.
This is really based on how hero would react to a c/r. On this board, a c/r range is so narrow that I know a lot of players will try to rebluff here or pull some float.

You definitely need reads to start c/r KJ/KQ here for value though. I wouldn't do it without reads, and knowing how he will respond to a c/r here.

c/r KJ+ though is for value and not as a bluff.
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