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pocketfours
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08-12-2008, 07:18 AM
Post subject: 5/10: squeeze trap
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Button is 30/24 LAG, plays any sort of garbage OTB. BB is a very aggro TAG reg who likes to squeeze a lot. I was waiting for the button to open and then called quite fast (rep easy call), supposedly making a squeeze spot to dream of. Then timed down some before making the 4-bet.
Good/Bad?
UTG ($2038)
MP ($391)
CO ($92)
Button ($1109)
Hero ($1085)
BB ($1040)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A , Q.
3 folds, Button raises to $22, Hero calls $17, BB raises to $122, Button folds, Hero raises to $275, BB raises to $1040 (All-In), Hero calls $765.
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redih
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cumberland, Maryland
Posts: 53
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I don't like pre-flop AI against known tag's with AQs. It's not bad though, would've thought that without a PP or AK he'd have folded to the 275 or just called. I think you're behind, but maybe he's on tilt.
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Trust your parachute.
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pocketfours
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Me neither, but if our plan is to induce a squeeze, then we got to stick to our plan right? We're not really representing anything, so folding to the shove would be pretty ridiculous. AQs is still a big hand in a button battle.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
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nh
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
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would open shoving be better/worse here vs villain's 5bet range when we have to call? how about AK?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
would open shoving be better/worse here vs villain's 5bet range when we have to call? how about AK?
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I certainly think we need to give room for a thin shove here. The same goes for AK.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I think up to the point where you 4-bet, this is good. You'll certainly be taking down the dead money a lot.
I think once we get 5-bet jammed though, we're kinda toast here. We're at best hoping to be flipping, but I'd imaging often 2:1.
Have you seen villain 5-bet jam 'bluff' in this spot, or with hands like 9Ts or something like that?
I think we have to call once we 4bet since we're getting like 2:1, but I'm not fist pumping or anything.
come on spades!
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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this is very standard in any reasonably aggressive game with shallow stacks. Its not quite as good as usual here though because of the button minraise as opposed to 3-3.5x
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
I think up to the point where you 4-bet, this is good. You'll certainly be taking down the dead money a lot.
I think we have to call once we 4bet since we're getting like 2:1, but I'm not fist pumping or anything.
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Does not compute.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
I think up to the point where you 4-bet, this is good. You'll certainly be taking down the dead money a lot.
I think we have to call once we 4bet since we're getting like 2:1, but I'm not fist pumping or anything.
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Does not compute. |
I'm just saying, I think when we 4-bet this pre after the squeeze, we're gonna win a lot without any hassle. We'll prob take down all the dead money a very high percentage of the time.
That being said, I think the time he does 5-bet us, he very often shows up with a very strong hand (unless you have a read that he's 5-bet bombed in this spot light before), and we're probably behind a fair amount.
I mean, this is such a level, cause you 4-bet small, such that you aren't getting exactly 2:1, but you might have induced worse hands to shove sometimes, so I think we still should call here.
disclaimer: maybe I'm just running bad lately and feel like my AQ all in pre is a magnet for AK.
please compute!
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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I love doing this against squeezy regs. That said, like Renton mentionned, it's alot better if he made it 3-3.5x...
Buttt you need a strong read that he does spazz and 5bet bluff often in these spots, if you don't just jam it instead (instead of min 4bet)
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
I think up to the point where you 4-bet, this is good. You'll certainly be taking down the dead money a lot.
I think we have to call once we 4bet since we're getting like 2:1, but I'm not fist pumping or anything.
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Does not compute. |
I'm just saying, I think when we 4-bet this pre after the squeeze, we're gonna win a lot without any hassle. We'll prob take down all the dead money a very high percentage of the time.
That being said, I think the time he does 5-bet us, he very often shows up with a very strong hand (unless you have a read that he's 5-bet bombed in this spot light before), and we're probably behind a fair amount.
I mean, this is such a level, cause you 4-bet small, such that you aren't getting exactly 2:1, but you might have induced worse hands to shove sometimes, so I think we still should call here.
disclaimer: maybe I'm just running bad lately and feel like my AQ all in pre is a magnet for AK.
please compute! |
If the call/4-bet is good and we have to call the 5-bet (which we most certainly do), then this can't be bad, right? So you can't say that you like the call/4-bet, but you don't like the fact that now we have to call the 5-bet.
Of course we are hoping that he will fold, we are holding AQs for christ's sake, but that's not what this move is meant to accomplish. What we are trying to do is:
Get all in with about 45% equity against his 5-bet range AND get some additional fold equity to compensate and turn this into a winning play. If he sometimes shoves very weak hands as a bluff, then this instantly becomes a great play.
I'm not saying that this is good, I'm asking.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
If the call/4-bet is good and we have to call the 5-bet (which we most certainly do), then this can't be bad, right? So you can't say that you like the call/4-bet, but you don't like the fact that now we have to call the 5-bet.
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I don't really agree with this. I mean, this is ENTIRELY read dependent on the player to be able to make a comment like that. There can certainly be some kind of scenario where some player compulsively squeezes but never never 5-bet jam bluffs (nor does he 5-bet light).
I think its safe to say in this kind of spot, call/4-betting is fine, but calling his 5-bet shove is not fine vs his perceived range.
Obviously in this spot, you don't think villain is such a nitfest, though I think we'd be hard pressed to be 45% against any of his 5-bet shoving range.
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.451% 35.37% 07.08% 38159079 7634826.50 { AsQs }
Hand 1: 57.549% 50.47% 07.08% 54446420 7634826.50 { 88+, AQs+, AcJc, AhTh, Ad8d, QhJh, Th9h, 8d7d, AQo+ }
I think at the end of the day this is all reads on villain. Some players I know will spew off shove some random T8o in this spot, and so its a fistpump insta call with AsQs, and others won't.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I think this is fine. But calling the 5bet is actually closer than I thought... he has to be pushing a significant number of med pp's or worse aces to make you less than a 1:75:1 dog. Still, given how you played it, I think he's pushing a wide enough range here.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
If the call/4-bet is good and we have to call the 5-bet (which we most certainly do), then this can't be bad, right? So you can't say that you like the call/4-bet, but you don't like the fact that now we have to call the 5-bet.
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I don't really agree with this. I mean, this is ENTIRELY read dependent on the player to be able to make a comment like that. There can certainly be some kind of scenario where some player compulsively squeezes but never never 5-bet jam bluffs (nor does he 5-bet light).
I think its safe to say in this kind of spot, call/4-betting is fine, but calling his 5-bet shove is not fine vs his perceived range.
Obviously in this spot, you don't think villain is such a nitfest, though I think we'd be hard pressed to be 45% against any of his 5-bet shoving range.
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.451% 35.37% 07.08% 38159079 7634826.50 { AsQs }
Hand 1: 57.549% 50.47% 07.08% 54446420 7634826.50 { 88+, AQs+, AcJc, AhTh, Ad8d, QhJh, Th9h, 8d7d, AQo+ }
I think at the end of the day this is all reads on villain. Some players I know will spew off shove some random T8o in this spot, and so its a fistpump insta call with AsQs, and others won't. |
This move is totally pointless if we are going to FOLD to a shove. I mean if we are trying to induce a light shove, then we aren't folding!
But I agree with you in that AQs was perhaps just slightly too weak of a hand for this move. AK or even TT would have been better.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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this is fine
but its certainly not great
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I'd just threebet, this is just kind of a stupid spot where we're not getting it in versus that good of a range. And I'd rather be playing this hand against the Button than the BB.
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