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pocketfours
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11-26-2007, 09:10 AM
Post subject: 5/10 HU. AA 170BB deep, choose a line.
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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Villain is a high stakes regular. He is playing in two short handed 2knl tables at the same time. He stacked me about 20 hands back when we both flopped a flush. Villain is raising about 40% on the button and I'm reraising about 20% of my hands in the BB. Villain has called about 50% of my reraises.
Villain seems to play a very solid game and I haven't seen him make any crazy plays in this session, but I know he is capable of all kinds of plays. My image is solid.
I haven't seen him make any thin value bets.
I'm dealt aces in the BB:
Seat 1: HERO [AC,AH] ($1,711.50 in chips)
Seat 9: BUTTON ($2,134.50 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
BUTTON posts blind ($5), HERO posts blind ($10).
PRE-FLOP
BUTTON bets $30, HERO bets $140, BUTTON calls $115.
FLOP [board cards: KC,6H,7D ] (pot: 300)
HERO bets $225, BUTTON calls $225.
TURN [board cards: KC,6H,7D,8D ] (pot: 750)
HERO...
Should I b/c, b/f, c/r, c/c (+b/c riv), c/c (+c/c riv) or c/c (+c/f riv)?
Choose the best two lines (assume 3h on the river).
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Since I really can't see us folding and since it seems best, i bet/call. Really any bet size has its own value, though i don't think if he happened to be floating or picked up a nice combo or draw that he is going to try to blow you off a b/f type 550 bet. It's hard to really decide what size to do because none of them seem that great.
Ofc bet the flop.
I don't like c/c the turn.
c/r has some merit, especially if he's floating. Though you said your not expecting him to have huge bluffing frequencies, and if he has a 98,97 type hand he's checking behind and we give him a free chance to draw us out.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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b/c turn seems best and it doesnt look close
id bet 480 on turn so he can imagine fold equity on shove
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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B/c, ok. Thanks guys.
In this game I chose to check and call $600 on the turn and folded to a river shove. Don't know what villain had.
I like my line, but I also like b/f turn + c/f river. I'm not happy with b/c turn myself against this passive-ish solid villain.
If you had to choose between:
1. b/f + c/f
OR
2. c/c + c/f (but b/f blank river or c/c scary river when turn goes check-check).
Which one would you prefer here? I like 2. slightly more because I will almost always get another bet from top pair and even smaller pairs, but in 1. even a weak top pair (KJ/KT) might fold on the turn. Nr 1. protects my hand though.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Do we think he is not going for two vbets with AK and KQ? Because if he is, even if he's never bluffing, which is ridiculous to say, don't we have to call river?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Do we think he is not going for two vbets with AK and KQ? Because if he is, even if he's never bluffing, which is ridiculous to say, don't we have to call river?
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We have to count my cbet as one of his vbets. Besides AK is unlikely because of preflop and both KQ and AK would very often raise flop.
Besides, why is it like everybody always wants to find one hand that they beat that isn't bluffing in order for them to call? I'm beat here by K6s, K7s, K8s, 67, 78, T9, 45, 66, 77, 88, KK and combo draws like 9d6d are still close to a coinflip. All these hands are in his range... We hate life if we check and he bets. I don't even mind c/f on the turn, as sick as it sounds.
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The Grouch
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: representing a narrow range
Posts: 26
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Please Bet/Call and then shove river.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
I don't even mind c/f on the turn, as sick as it sounds.
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holy for real? What can he have here?
I would expect a flopped set to raise given how deep you are, given that you could have a strong K here.
If he has a K, he's likely flat calling the flop cause a raise would only blow out worse hands. Assuming he might have a K, his likely K's to call a 3-bet would be KT,KJ+ which didn't improve on this turn.
I really don't see a reason to c/f here. Worst case I would b/f but even still I can't see what hands got there based on PF and flop. I think a T+ turn would be worse as OESD/two pairs coulda gotten there, but as played I b/c.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
I don't even mind c/f on the turn, as sick as it sounds.
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holy for real? What can he have here? |
Indeed, HFR.
I probably wouldn't c/f here myself but I don't think it's a huge mistake against a solid tight player when you also have a spotless image.
In a really aggro game this is an almost automatic cbet flop, check/shove turn. This game wasn't one of those though.
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The Grouch
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: representing a narrow range
Posts: 26
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if you aren't thrilled at the prospect of getting it in with AA here then you really should find a different game
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Grouch
if you aren't thrilled at the prospect of getting it in with AA here then you really should find a different game
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Thanks for your help. You mean like something at lower stakes?
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The Grouch
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: representing a narrow range
Posts: 26
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less tight, worse opponent
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Grouch
if you aren't thrilled at the prospect of getting it in with AA here then you really should find a different game
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The way this sentence reads is way way way different than what you actually meant (I assume), i suggest rewording it. Based on what I think it means this is my response.
1. People aren't always playing to maximize profits
2. What you said isn't true, there are other factors of game selection. In fact some very tight passive or loose passive players are great to play and i wouldn't get it in with AA versus some of them.
3. If you are going to post in this forum please don't be smug, i don't mean this is a demeaning way. I am smug a lot and I hate it. Seeing smugness from an outside perspective though gives me the feeling of wanting to strangle a smug poster.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Grouch
less tight, worse opponent
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 Lol, welcome to the forum. I'm very happy to play in all kinds of games and I think you need to master the tight games in order to thrive at the loose ones.
Usually the most interesting hands to share with my FTR fellows are the ones that are played against solid opponents.
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The Grouch
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: representing a narrow range
Posts: 26
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Grouch
3. If you are going to post in this forum please don't be smug, i don't mean this is a demeaning way. I am smug a lot and I hate it. Seeing smugness from an outside perspective though gives me the feeling of wanting to strangle a smug poster.
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Lol @ smugness..... How does saying that it might not be the best idea to play against an opponent described as "capable of all kinds of plays" and yet still one whom you are unwilling to get it in against on this turn/river combo make me smug?
Questioning table selection is certainly reasonable for a high stakes forum imo
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Grouch
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Grouch
3. If you are going to post in this forum please don't be smug, i don't mean this is a demeaning way. I am smug a lot and I hate it. Seeing smugness from an outside perspective though gives me the feeling of wanting to strangle a smug poster.
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Lol @ smugness..... How does saying that it might not be the best idea to play against an opponent described as "capable of all kinds of plays" and yet still one whom you are unwilling to get it in against on this turn/river combo make me smug?
Questioning table selection is certainly reasonable for a high stakes forum imo |
yo ISF wtf? We get a new poster who gives good advice and u freak out at him for this post? If the object of the forum is to beat higher stakes poker games, being in a game where going broke with AA here is marginal is a clear mistake for maximizing profits. If he just wanted to play the guy, fine, but its not a good spot.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
yo ISF wtf? We get a new poster who gives good advice and u freak out at him for this post?
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I'm sure ISF didn't freak out because of this post alone sauce... If we don't REQUIRE our members to post their opinions in a COURTEOUS manner, then this forum is never going to be anything really great no matter how many posts are made.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Grouch
Anybody who doesnt realize that this is a clear fold is nuts....
OMG not 5 bet shoving here is criminal. PLEASE nobody is folding preflop...
None of these wonderfully deep thinking statements addressed what I was implying
ew this is so gross, nobody double barrels here...
if you aren't thrilled at the prospect of getting it in with AA here then you really should find a different game
Lol @ smugness.....
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Unacceptable.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
If the object of the forum is to beat higher stakes poker games, being in a game where going broke with AA here is marginal is a clear mistake for maximizing profits. If he just wanted to play the guy, fine, but its not a good spot.
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You need to rethink this post sauce - it's not at all that black and white. I'm never going to be playing in the 10knl+ games if I keep away from solid players, besides, every player and every style can be outplayed, that's the beauty of the game.
As you said yourself, the object is to beat higher stakes games and that doesn't have to imply maximizing profits at current level.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
If the object of the forum is to beat higher stakes poker games, being in a game where going broke with AA here is marginal is a clear mistake for maximizing profits. If he just wanted to play the guy, fine, but its not a good spot.
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You need to rethink this post sauce - it's not at all that black and white. I'm never going to be playing in the 10knl+ games if I keep away from solid players, besides, every player and every style can be outplayed, that's the beauty of the game.
As you said yourself, the object is to beat higher stakes games and that doesn't have to imply maximizing profits at current level. |
sure. but does that mean that that isn't an opinion relevant to the hand? I frequently pass up maximum ev to play tough opponents; however i thin k ppl saying "why the hell are u sitting with Urindanger" have a legitimate critique of my game...
but sure, thing could have been said a bit nicer, however, in all of these forums I see a consistent bias towards bashing newcomers which is just kind of dumb. id rather have a bit of venom in posts than well spoken with bad content....
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
but sure, thing could have been said a bit nicer, however, in all of these forums I see a consistent bias towards bashing newcomers which is just kind of dumb. id rather have a bit of venom in posts than well spoken with bad content....
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That's true, but many newcomers have a ridiculous attitude and someone needs to inform them about proper etiquette at the site.
I think many of these disrespectful posters are the kind of people who will bash other players at the table with comments like "You stupid idiot fish sucker, don't you know how to calculate pot odds even?". I mean if they can't be polite at a public forum, then they most likely don't know how to be civil at the tables either. I'm not that keen on sharing my views about poker strategy with that type of players.
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The Grouch
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: representing a narrow range
Posts: 26
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You really have to chill out sir. You are far more out of line with these accusations than I possibly could have been interpreted to be in my posts. It's too funny to me that you accuse me of being the type of player who would berate fish, etc.
I have tried to share my experience and thoughts on the game, which have made me a lot of money. Sometimes I get excited and use terms like "LOL" and "omg gross." How these are so offensive when taken in context to the valuable advice I am sharing I do not know.
One thing I do know however is that I have not singled out a single poster in the way you are doing to me. You need to take a serious look in the mirror before you give lectures on proper forum etiquette.
Please FTR community do let me know if this is out of line and offensive. I will simply stop posting here and you all can go on enjoying your perfectly proper and polite community.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Grouch
You really have to chill out sir. You are far more out of line with these accusations than I possibly could have been interpreted to be in my posts. It's too funny to me that you accuse me of being the type of player who would berate fish, etc.
I have tried to share my experience and thoughts on the game, which have made me a lot of money. Sometimes I get excited and use terms like "LOL" and "omg gross." How these are so offensive when taken in context to the valuable advice I am sharing I do not know.
One thing I do know however is that I have not singled out a single poster in the way you are doing to me. You need to take a serious look in the mirror before you give lectures on proper forum etiquette.
Please FTR community do let me know if this is out of line and offensive. I will simply stop posting here and you all can go on enjoying your perfectly proper and polite community.
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Hey Grouch, I didn't mean you specifically here at all! I'm sorry if you thought so. I was just referring to what sauce was saying about general attitude towards newcomers. Please keep posting, we appreciate your input.
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TheFaucet
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 21
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turn check is unacceptable imo
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