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pocketfours
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09-13-2007, 11:34 AM
Post subject: 5/10 HU 250BB deep. AA.
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Villain is solid and aggro HU regular. Before this hand I had bet the flop every time he checked with the lead and he folded every time, so I was expecting him to c/r me the next time he would hit the flop well (with the lead). Almost every hand that saw a flop was 3 bet preflop. Villain is very aggressive preflop, but usually not out of line postflop.
Texas Hold'em $10-$20 NL (real money)
Seat 5: BB ($2,440.80 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO [ AD,AC ] ($3,210.00 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
HERO posts blind ($5), BB posts blind ($10).
PRE-FLOP
HERO bets $25, BB bets $115, HERO calls $95.
FLOP [ board cards QC,7D,6H ]
BB checks, HERO bets $175, BB bets $550, HERO calls $375.
TURN [ board cards QC,7D,6H,2S ]
BB bets $1000, HERO...?
Villain has about $900 left. What is my play?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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seems like you gotta stick it in because of the fact you keep doing this over and over and he keeps folding. if he only did this line with QQQ then he wouldnt be a solid HU player.
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crazycrazy
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 240
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why no 4bet preflop ?
would he play AQ,KK diferently when u just called pre ?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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When we got over 200BB deep, villain started to 3 bet about 40% of his hands (I was raising around 90% on the button), so he could easily have Q7s/Q6s/76 as well as QQ/77/66. AQ isn't very likely because of my hand and I just don't see him stacking off 250BB with KQ. I know I wouldn't.
Hands in his range that beat me: Q7s/Q6s/76/QQ/77/66
Hands in his range that are behind: KK/AQ (perhaps also KQ/T9/89/air).
If I push I'm giving him about 4,5:1 to call, so he seems pretty committed to me.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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I cant see not pushing this. I know its 250bbs deep but since most of the pots are being 3bet its effectively much shallower. If you arent comfortable getting it in on a flop like this you should 4bet preflop imo.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
When we got over 200BB deep, villain started to 3 bet about 40% of his hands
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had you 4bet him yet?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by crazycrazy
why no 4bet preflop ?
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Just mixing it up.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by crazycrazy
would he play AQ,KK diferently when u just called pre ?
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Well I'm expecting him to 5-bet both AQ and KK OOP pre.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
When we got over 200BB deep, villain started to 3 bet about 40% of his hands
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had you 4bet him yet? |
Yes, three times in the last 20min and he folded every time.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
I cant see not pushing this. I know its 250bbs deep but since most of the pots are being 3bet its effectively much shallower. If you arent comfortable getting it in on a flop like this you should 4bet preflop imo.
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Good point. Obviously 4 betting preflop is standard here. This just happened to be one of those times when I decided to mix it up. And funny enough, it's usually the times I decide to mix it up when I find myself in these spots 
Well anyway my read on him was that he doesn't want to play this fast with top pair or less, so the only hand I thought I could beat was KK and that's a pretty thin slice of his wide range. I also don't like to loose my whole stack in the hands where I'm playing unconventionally.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
When we got over 200BB deep, villain started to 3 bet about 40% of his hands
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had you 4bet him yet? |
Yes, three times in the last 20min and he folded every time. |
No doubt I fourbet if this is the case, but not fourbetting is fine.
The interesting part is do we shove the river or just call? I say just call since we cant ever balance shoving with a bluff and i think he cry folds KK/AQ
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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i would 4 bet pre alot here because he can easily 5 bet tons of pairs thinking you are just getting tired of the 3 bets
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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What's his image of you? Does he view you as a bit of a station? I just find it interesting that's he's betting so hard on such a dry board.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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werewolf98
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13
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4bet
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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You have to 4-bet pre here.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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arg no he doesn't, look how much money he's making here thanks to the fact that he didn't fourbet pre
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
i would 4 bet pre alot here because he can easily 5 bet tons of pairs thinking you are just getting tired of the 3 bets
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yea me too, though 3betting is for sure not a mistake.
i think u might be being results oriented here, i would get it in on the flop everytime vs most good hu players and be kinda happy about it.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
arg no he doesn't, look how much money he's making here thanks to the fact that he didn't fourbet pre
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So we're not taking advantage of the fact that opp thinks our fourbet range is really wide?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
arg no he doesn't, look how much money he's making here thanks to the fact that he didn't fourbet pre
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So we're not taking advantage of the fact that opp thinks our fourbet range is really wide? |
well, definitely you should 4bet here a percentage of the time, but realistically calling is gonna show a larger immediate profit
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
arg no he doesn't, look how much money he's making here thanks to the fact that he didn't fourbet pre
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So we're not taking advantage of the fact that opp thinks our fourbet range is really wide? |
well, definitely you should 4bet here a percentage of the time, but realistically calling is gonna show a larger immediate profit |
If by immediate action you mean the most +EV action if we never play this guy again after this hand I have to disagree.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
arg no he doesn't, look how much money he's making here thanks to the fact that he didn't fourbet pre
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So we're not taking advantage of the fact that opp thinks our fourbet range is really wide? |
well, definitely you should 4bet here a percentage of the time, but realistically calling is gonna show a larger immediate profit |
If by immediate action you mean the most +EV action if we never play this guy again after this hand I have to disagree. |
so u are saying that we get enough action when we fourbet here to trump how much we make from him autobetting the flop when we flatcall?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
arg no he doesn't, look how much money he's making here thanks to the fact that he didn't fourbet pre
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Lol yes, except that I folded the turn. Didn't ask what he had either.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Funny that this discussion is so much about whether to fourbet or not. I think aces are very good to slowplay in an aggro HU game and I do it frequently (IP).
This villain wasn't frustrated with me in any way since he was winning and I didn't see any particular reason to fourbet because his threebetting range was really wide.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i think the mere fact that he can have KK makes this impossible to get away from
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
What's his image of you? Does he view you as a bit of a station? I just find it interesting that's he's betting so hard on such a dry board.
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I had not been caught out of line a single time in the game and he had no reason to view me as a station. I'm pretty sure that he knew that my flop bets (when he didn't cbet) could very well be air, but I don't see the point of playing back with nothing. Much better to wait for a hand and then play back.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i think the mere fact that he can have KK makes this impossible to get away from
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Well he could just as well have any of Q7s/Q6s/76/QQ/77/66, and I had only put $700 out of $2500 to the pot, so this seemed to me like a good place to chicken out. If it was a mistake I'm sure it wasn't a very big one.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
arg no he doesn't, look how much money he's making here thanks to the fact that he didn't fourbet pre
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So we're not taking advantage of the fact that opp thinks our fourbet range is really wide? |
well, definitely you should 4bet here a percentage of the time, but realistically calling is gonna show a larger immediate profit |
If by immediate action you mean the most +EV action if we never play this guy again after this hand I have to disagree. |
so u are saying that we get enough action when we fourbet here to trump how much we make from him autobetting the flop when we flatcall? |
Why not take into consideration every value factor besides just one? Can he not five bet us with air and stack off? Do we lose less when we fourbet? How much more is he going to put in with worse hands if we fourbet rather than flat call (This seems like its close with a slight edge to calling but im not positive)? There are other factors too.
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