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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-22-2005, 02:09 AM     Post subject: a 5/10 hand #1 (permalink)  
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I win when I play bettar opponents newayz.

I took my 20 buyin roll over to 5/10 to mix things up and maybe scare some good play back into me.

I've got J7o in the BB and it's a limp pot. 4 players to the flop.

Flop comes 779, suits escape me but it was rainbow. I lead out pot (40) and get raised to 100 by ep limper who I don't really know. Then a lmp limper pushes for just about 1k.

I entertain the thought of him having 78, 67, A7, A9, lotsa things. In the end, I decided I'd fold becuase there's a lot of uncertainty out there, I've only invest 50 bucks, I've still got a raiser behind me and if he did turn out to be sporting A7 or 99, I'd be shot for poker for the rest of the day (tilt).

Is taking the safe route the wrong route?

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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journey075
Old 06-22-2005, 02:20 AM #2 (permalink)  
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the fold is fine.

at higher stakes, the play is certainly more aggressive and you have to find places to make your stand. without a read, however, and 2 raises to your bet...id say its a fine laydown. wait a few orbits and judge how the players play, youll figure out if it was a good fold or not.
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SmackinYaUp
Old 06-22-2005, 02:29 AM #3 (permalink)  
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So you feel the need to explain moving up in stakes all of a sudden?


Anyways, i'd fold it too without any reads and a raiser behind. I doubt the min-raiser had much anyways, but he's still there. The pusher, well, who knows but he is pushing into a bet and a raise. I'd hate to start the day like this as well and these are the kinds of hands that people get caught and stacked with.
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elipsesjeff
Old 06-22-2005, 02:33 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Your pot size bet screams TPTK and the table aggressor probably thinks he can buy the pot off of you. I bet one guy has a nine and the other a high pocket pair slow played. Easy call for me as the money in this situation shouldn't let it get to you (very easy for me to say on this end). Isn't this what you wanted with your trips?

Why wouldn't you call an all in in this situation?


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SmackinYaUp
Old 06-22-2005, 02:35 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Your pot size bet screams TPTK and the table aggressor probably thinks he can buy the pot off of you. I bet one guy has a nine and the other a high pocket pair slow played. Easy call for me as the money in this situation shouldn't let it get to you (very easy for me to say on this end). Isn't this what you wanted with your trips?

Why wouldn't you call an all in in this situation?
Good fucking point. I change my mind. If it was 100NL, I would call it.
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journey075
Old 06-22-2005, 02:53 AM #6 (permalink)  
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i agree with what everyone says though, a call is also a good play.
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TylerK
Old 06-22-2005, 03:00 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Like I said on AIM, I think this was a pretty weak fold. Also he obviously has pocket 4s rite LOL
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-22-2005, 03:10 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Your pot size bet screams TPTK and the table aggressor probably thinks he can buy the pot off of you. I bet one guy has a nine and the other a high pocket pair slow played. Easy call for me as the money in this situation shouldn't let it get to you (very easy for me to say on this end). Isn't this what you wanted with your trips?

Why wouldn't you call an all in in this situation?
Here are the following reasons to fold:

No read.
I've only invested 50 bucks.
I've still got someone behind me who has shown aggression.
I can fold here without the table thinking they can run me over.
If he does show a better hand, I'll probably microtilt and probably be done for the day poker-wise. (I'm in that kinda zone right now. And I'm none to pleased about admitting this fact)

Reasons to call:

I have the best hand here frequently.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-22-2005, 03:11 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp
So you feel the need to explain moving up in stakes all of a sudden?
I can go bust however I damn well please.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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SmackinYaUp
Old 06-22-2005, 03:33 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I can go bust however I damn well please.

-'rilla
Damn straight you can.
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Gatlin Dan
Old 06-22-2005, 05:06 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Conventional wisdom says the higher the stakes, the better you need to know your opponent. With no knowledge of his play, I can't argue a call. It's a cash game and not a tournament. That's one other reason to lay it down if you have doubts.

After the series of events leading up to the window mishap, folding here was probably the best play. No need to call the window fixer people again.

Your fold might not have been a mistake, but playing 5/10 NL when you have been playing 3/6 and running bad, may have been.

It's sounds incredibly weak-tight but I'm going to quote Mike Caro:

"The dollar you keep from losing on a losing day, is the same dollar you add to a win on a winning day."

It's was too early in the day to know which one of those days you were having.

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jmontis
Old 06-22-2005, 06:25 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I'd say he had a weaker 7-x, just doesn't make sense someone who flopped a full would push here. What'd he have, A7s? 99? 79s?
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-22-2005, 06:27 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmontis
I'd say he had a weaker 7-x, just doesn't make sense someone who flopped a full would push here. What'd he have, A7s? 99? 79s?
44. He showed after we both folded.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 06-22-2005, 07:33 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmontis
I'd say he had a weaker 7-x, just doesn't make sense someone who flopped a full would push here. What'd he have, A7s? 99? 79s?
44. He showed after we both folded.

-'rilla
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I only lose to Bad beats too.


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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-22-2005, 09:47 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmontis
I'd say he had a weaker 7-x, just doesn't make sense someone who flopped a full would push here. What'd he have, A7s? 99? 79s?
44. He showed after we both folded.

-'rilla
I'm the best NL player, ever.

I only lose to Bad beats too.
Nobody like you. Except your mom, but only out of obligation.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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SteveO
Old 06-23-2005, 11:43 AM #16 (permalink)  
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I would have called for 2 reasons. First, what kind of flop do you want when taking a flyer like J7. That was it! 95% you have the best hand. The only concern is getting sucked out on which commonly happens when one of the rivers a full house.

Second, if you make that call and lose and rebuy, the table knows they got a live one who plays J7 and you can get some more action.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-23-2005, 12:29 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveO
I would have called for 2 reasons. First, what kind of flop do you want when taking a flyer like J7. That was it! 95% you have the best hand. The only concern is getting sucked out on which commonly happens when one of the rivers a full house.

Second, if you make that call and lose and rebuy, the table knows they got a live one who plays J7 and you can get some more action.
I was in the BB

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SteveO
Old 06-23-2005, 06:36 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Oops, overlooked that fact took you for a limper too.

Its a very tough play. Not knowing anything about the players I would fold too. Anyone else with the 7 likely has you outkicked. More likely, someone with an overpair gets lucky and turns a FH. I've lost a good bit that way.

OTOH, I lost bigtime the other day w/ AA and KK so sometimes you just gotta get a little nuts when you catch a miracle flop like that. If you psyche can't handle it you should play lower, that's what I do.

My BR will allow me to play 400NL maybe 600 if I want to get crazy, but I just don't feel comfortable moving that kind of money around.
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LeFou
Old 06-23-2005, 06:47 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveO
More likely, someone with an overpair gets lucky and turns a FH. I've lost a good bit that way
Correction: someone with an overpair gets lucky and turns a FH 4% of the time. Rivers it another 4%. The other 92% of the time you take hisher stack.

I've made a goot bit that way.

And you KNOW this, Steve? Why the gloom? I lost a $100 on a hand just like this a couple days ago, but I'm still calling this.
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Grand_MasterB
Old 06-23-2005, 08:03 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan
It's a cash game and not a tournament. That's one other reason to lay it down if you have doubts.
You are totally wrong here. You should be more inclined to push all in with what may be a small edge in a cash game then in a tournament. In a cash game you can reload and keep playing. In a tournament you are out and there is no next hand to catch him on.
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Gatlin Dan
Old 06-24-2005, 04:05 AM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan
It's a cash game and not a tournament. That's one other reason to lay it down if you have doubts.
You are totally wrong here. You should be more inclined to push all in with what may be a small edge in a cash game then in a tournament. In a cash game you can reload and keep playing. In a tournament you are out and there is no next hand to catch him on.
So don't push your edge in a tournament if it is small? Get blinded out before you get another opportunity like that? I think 'rilla said he was done for the day if he lost his buy in. Reloading wasn't an option.

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m3laNcholy
Old 06-24-2005, 12:16 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveO
Anyone else with the 7 likely has you outkicked.
That means that at at NL $1000 someone is limping Q7/K7/A7 or 97.
If they do I pay them off then rebuy and bust them later.

If there's another 7 its either 67 or 78 I say call this every time, and you only lose to 99 or a suckout.
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LeFou
Old 06-24-2005, 02:06 PM #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3laNcholy
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveO
Anyone else with the 7 likely has you outkicked.
That means that at at NL $1000 someone is limping Q7/K7/A7 or 97.
Bingo. This is why this hand is typically a call and the one I lost my hat with was an error. Mine was J9 or something like that with two jacks on board. JT, QJ, KJ, and AJ are all eminently playable, but only A7(presumably A7s) is a real possibility here.

I like the psychological question: if you know that losing your stack would knock you off yr game for the day, should you play as if it were a tournament? hm ... My first reaction is that if losing a buyin can bum you out that much, the stakes are too high.

I play 100NL and have about 20 buyins for that, and if I lose a stack I gotta go for a walk and smoke, etc. but I don't have to shut 'er down for the day.
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SteveO
Old 06-24-2005, 02:36 PM #24 (permalink)  
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Yeah, chances are slim that another 7 is out ther heads up but this is 4 way action. There is a bet and a huge AI re-raise and a player yet to act. So J7 does not look so hot anymore.

Yeah, if someone is playing the overpair you are a huge favorite, but still risk the whole stack, which he said would tilt him.

Finally, yeah, I would limp w/ an A7 in 1000NL. I would limp with just about any connectors or suited one gappers. That's how you destack the bad guys. In fact, I find in the "high stakes" AA and KK win small pots and lose huge ones and the trash hands are quite the opposite.
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gabe
Old 06-24-2005, 11:02 PM #25 (permalink)  
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MannerBoy
Old 06-27-2005, 04:08 AM #26 (permalink)  
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Make that call everyday and twice on weekends.
Like M3lancholy said if there is a 7 out there is probably someone who limp with a suited connector something like 67/78.
Since SteveO is the only one who would limp with A7/K7/Q7 and i guess he wasnt at the same table with u , then yea make the call.


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allLiving
Old 07-17-2005, 05:06 PM #27 (permalink)  
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Call this in a heartbeat.

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Funky
Old 07-19-2005, 03:09 PM #28 (permalink)  

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not calling is really weak
you've lost your confidence

sounds like you should be moving down for a while not up
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a500lbgorilla
Old 07-19-2005, 03:31 PM #29 (permalink)  
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Well that was a month ago. I've moved on to 200 sngs and have been enjoying success.

{locked}

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