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Numbr2intheWorld
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02-15-2008, 04:50 PM
Post subject: 5/10 FU utg limper
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Main villain in this hand is a 19/15/2.5. I don't have many reads on any of the 5/10 players cause i haven't played the level much, but I have seen this guy cold call (he wasn't the original raiser) my position rr from the blinds, and then c/s a Kxx two tone flop. He's definitely a reg and he's kind of just gone under the radar. I've never seen him limp before but i assumed he'd reraise AA or KK pre given the preflop strength i just showed (then again, cold calling a rr oop with AA seems pretty bad so who knows).
The other villain is a non tricky reg and i am not worried about him at all. He almost always has a straight draw, FD, or TP (most likely TP) here and is folding to a shove and not shoving over a call. He didn't think any before calling pre so i doubt it's JJ or TT, and i also highly doubt he'd call the flop bet with those.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (5 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($778.50)
Hero ($1655)
BB ($1050.25)
UTG ($1447.75)
MP ($1837.50)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K , Q .
UTG calls $10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $60, BB calls $45, UTG calls $45.
Flop: ($170) T, J, 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $130, BB calls $130, UTG raises to $470, Hero
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Don't bet the flop. As played i guess shove, we didn't flop the joint just to play it like we had nothing.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Don't bet the flop.
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Really? Whats the logic behind this?
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Villain has no midrange
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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The Odds God
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 252
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Bet the flop, if you are prepared to shove after he raises. Don't bet the flop, if you are not. Somehow I always get raised on this flop, this is the reason for ISF statement, I guess.
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The secret to success in poker is to rig the odds in your favor.
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MuddyWicket
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK, Brighton
Posts: 368
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the mid range comment is that effectively saying nearly wa/wb? although not quite but villain is likely to fold or want to get it allin but nothing inbetween? Effectively meaning we can't bet for value?
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MuddyWicket
the mid range comment is that effectively saying nearly wa/wb? although not quite but villain is likely to fold or want to get it allin but nothing inbetween? Effectively meaning we can't bet for value?
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Well with a draw were not going to be wa/wb ever. But yeah i think he's saying that he's never going to show up with KJ or something like that here, which i completely agree with. The interesting thing is that i might fold out low FD's by shoving.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I think preflop is a little thin if you are taking a shot and don't have mad reads, I probably just limp along but w/e.
It's really weird that he limped I think but I'd guess his range is 44/JTs or draws. I don't really see what else it could be. Assuming that is true then we do have some FE and are in good shape if called by another draw so I shove.
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ChrisTheFish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Huddersfield, England
Posts: 492
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wow 5/10 already?
Nice work
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Sorry for the quick response.
I'm weirded out because getting it all in here is surely -EV if someone raises. It seems like c/c the flop while it has almost 0 metagame value is +EV, as we get pot odds on our draw.
Not exactly sure what to do still. But if we bet no doubt we should raise over a raise.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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This spot sucks pretty hard. We're somewhat deep so we could convince ourselves that we have FE but I really don't think we do. He's jamming this flop hard, and I'd imagine he shows up with JT, 44 or Axclubs a lot here.
I honestly bet/shove here, but mostly cause I'm dumb/aggro in the moment and not cause I think thats the best play. After thinking this through more, I'm not sure that call or fold isn't the best play. If we call, I'd imagine clubs would check through the turn, and we can just c/f turn unimproved.
If he checks through the turn, we can try river stealing on all non-club rivers.
The reason I say fold is cause I think we're a 2:1 dog against his shove calling range:
Board: Tc Jc 4d
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.391% 34.39% 00.00% 5788 0.00 { KcQd }
Hand 1: 65.609% 65.61% 00.00% 11042 0.00 { 44, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, Ac4c, JTs, 9c8c, JTo }
I can't really believe I'm saying fold, cause I never say fold, but I think this spot is really bad. I'm not even sure how happy we can be about calling and turning a straight with a club, nor will a K or Q necessarily put us ahead.
At first I didn't see why ISF said not to bet this flop, but I can see why now. Also anything that BB/UTG called with preflop probably isn't folding this board.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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I'm not really thrilled about pre, but I would b/f this flop since UTG will pretty much always lead when checked to with atc, and I think b/f is slightly better than c/c (mostly because c/c will narrow your range much more).
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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C/c or b/c cannot be correct here. We would never do that with JJ so we don't do it with anything else. We'd also be forcing ourselves into more difficult latter street decisions, and those more often than not turn out to be neg ev.
So then it's b3b or b/f. Villain is not raising marginally unless he's a moron, so our FE is minimal. Looks like a b/f. It's a b3b in a hu 3bet pot or hu 100bb pot.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Anyways, i ended up shoving. villain snapped with AA (w-t-f, and a lot of people on 2p2 think this guy is good... i don't understand how that could possibly be a good way to play AA pre). Luckily the turn came an A and he didn't boat up so SHIP IT.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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There is nothing wrong with occasionally calling with AA preflop when IP. I actually like it here because of your preflop raise size. Big raises preflop usually mean strong aggression postflop.
I think the only clear mistake in this hand was your bet/shove on the flop.
I also don't like villain's raise size on the flop. He was clearly committing himself and thereby giving you an easy way out, but you failed to take it.
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