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zook
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09-28-2007, 04:42 PM
Post subject: 5/10 - AK vs. an aggro regular
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Villain is an aggro regular, 28/23/3 over a lot of hands. We've been battling 250bb deep at another table for awhile, both of us have taken decent pots off each other. I'm sure he's capable of big bluffs, I've also seen him bet/fold a few times. From a hand at the other table he might think I'm a bit of a station, if he was paying attention (I stacked a terrible player by calling a river push with TPMK on a scary board).
Not a great turn, thoughts?
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $5/$10 - 6 players - Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $1056
UTG+1: $950
Hero: $1358
Button: $1456.75
SB: $1519.25
BB: $1000
Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with A  K 
UTG raises to $35, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, Button calls, 2 folds.
Flop: T 4  K  ($120, 3 players)
UTG bets $80, Hero calls, Button folds.
Turn: J ($280, 2 players)
UTG bets $215, Hero...
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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How do you not 3bet pre?
and zomg raise the flop he's never going to give you any credit just watch him bluff of his entire stack because he "can't put you on a hand." Yeah were 250bb deep but christ man.
As played i call turn and prob call river if its not a 9.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
How do you not 3bet pre?
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Just mixing things up vs. an aggro player. I think I can often get more value this way. Plus, players behind me will squeeze a fair amount and I have no problem shoving over a squeeze.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
and zomg raise the flop he's never going to give you any credit just watch him bluff of his entire stack because he "can't put you on a hand."
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I think this folds a lot of what we're beating and he's aggro enough to fire two or 3 barrels with worse.
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Yeah were 250bb deep but christ man.
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Only 100bb deep here. We're 250bb deep on the other table I'm playing with him.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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with this history not raising flop seems bad as well as not 3betting pre
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Hmm... why is raising this flop good? Is he continuing with anything we beat besides KQ/KJ/QJ?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Hmm... why is raising this flop good? Is he continuing with anything we beat besides KQ/KJ/QJ?
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Yes, look at the flop. He's going to say "zomg he's just bluffing" because all you can rep is 44 really. Then you check the turn and watch him float off his stack.
gg
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-58517.htm
Taking advantage of ISF theorem.
Quote:
Flop comes KJ6. Here our range is way ahead of our opponents...
If you didn't understand the first time here's the explanation again, We will stack off everytime with KK,JJ,66,KJ. Sometimes with AA/AK/KQ. Our opponent will stack off with 66 and KJ (except he wont show up with KJ a lot). Because our range is completey crushing our opponent, we should play the hand a lot more aggressively!
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Hmm... why is raising this flop good? Is he continuing with anything we beat besides KQ/KJ/QJ?
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Yes, look at the flop. He's going to say "zomg he's just bluffing" because all you can rep is 44 really. Then you check the turn and watch him float off his stack.
gg |
Or he's going to say, wow, this is a terrible flop for bluffing, he must have KJ or 44. I dunno, I'm not convinced. I think an aggro with a relatively wide utg range is going to be 2nd barreling this MUCH more often than he'll be calling a raise.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Hmm... why is raising this flop good? Is he continuing with anything we beat besides KQ/KJ/QJ?
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Yes, look at the flop. He's going to say "zomg he's just bluffing" because all you can rep is 44 really. Then you check the turn and watch him float off his stack.
gg |
Or he's going to say, wow, this is a terrible flop for bluffing, he must have KJ or 44. I dunno, I'm not convinced. I think an aggro with a relatively wide utg range is going to be 2nd barreling this MUCH more often than he'll be calling a raise. |
I don't think he knows that you think this is a terrible board for bluffing.
I see your point but tbh I think you're going to see action when you raise, whether it is calls from any Ten or better or some aggressive floating.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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lol zook call me crazy but i think this turn decision is more of a referendum on why you should have just played std and 3bet pre!
you dont have a "good" turn play here ur behind some shit and ahead of a fair amnt siiiiiigh
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Pretty awful spot, but I also think you need to raise the flop. It will usually buy you a free river card and possibly a free showdown.
Here you just need to follow your intuition, but you can't really make a huge mistake. I think I would probably call turn and fold most rivers.
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crazycrazy
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 240
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shove or fold
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crazycrazy
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by crazycrazy
shove or fold
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i explain that shove:
obv without 3bet pre its not easy to make a decision but anyway:
if he is agro and i think he c-bet oop like almost anything then his range on turn for second bullet on draw is very wide and it balances out straights/sets so with push u give bad odds to combo draws and sometimes loose to better hand.
fold is obv safe play if i think he only do that with a hand and maybe better without info from pf 3bet... probably default play here but i may shove as i explain up.
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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I don't really have the credentials to post in the HS forum but I had a very similar hand on Saturday. I also c/called with AK in BB against an aggro regular. I shoved the turn (the board was almost identical) and got called by JT and I didn't improve. It will teach me to 3-bet pre with AK.
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