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griffey24
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11-27-2008, 10:12 PM
Post subject: 5/10 - 4bet pot, deep with big pair... facing donk shove
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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-Villlain in this hand is a decent reg Jens LE
-We haven't really had many hands together today or much lately, but I know he rarely rarely folds to 3bets (fold to 3bet 48%) and his fold to 4bet is even lower (22%) considering that he 3bets a fair amount.. around 7
-Hero flats a bigish pair TT+ on button, because SB is a compulsive squeezer. Instead, SB flats and Villain squeezes (doesn't squeeze too too often)
-Hero 4-bets to isolate on CO flat, but instead gets called by villain. (sidenote: I think I 4bet way way way too big, and should have made it around $350ish)
-What's our calling range on flop if we have TT+. Do we fold KK/AA here? call TT? Obviously snap off QQ/JJ
$5/$10 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
CO ($985.00)
Hero (BTN) ($2962.60)
SB ($1149.75)
BB ($1861.00)
Pre-flop: ($15, 4 players) Hero is BTN with a PAIR TT+
CO raises to $30, Hero calls $30, SB calls $25, BB raises to $120, CO calls $90, Hero raises to $577, SB folds, BB calls $457, CO folds
Flop:    ($1304, 2 players)
BB bets $1284, Hero calls with?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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i think i would talk myself into calling with anything on the grounds that V prob puts us on AK due to our 4bet sizing and thought it would be a cool time to stop and go.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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whoa the size of your 4 bet just confused the fk out of me
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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can't see really having TT or JJ, can't see folding AA, so i guess you should call it off with everything
but yeah the 4bet size is ridiculous
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Luke999
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 238
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Given that villain rarely folds to 4bets then I really can't see us folding here. Though given your 4bet sizing is it less likely he is calling with his usual wide range?
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Yah 4bet sizing, I was trying to make it look like some steal so that CO shipped lightish, and was surprised when villain called.
Either way it was too big.
(edit out hero's results/hand cause P4's doesn't want them yet! )
Villain SHOWED AKo, which I think is a pretty interesting hand to showup with here/play this way.
What do we think of villain's play?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Villains AK seems like an easy shove pre, his flop shove is not that bad though. I don't hate your preflop play as much as the others do.
We can't fold AA, since after villain calls, we could let him see our hand and still make a profit.
Don't post results, wtf?
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Villains AK seems like an easy shove pre, his flop shove is not that bad though. I don't hate your preflop play as much as the others do.
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I always see people very willing to ship AKo in this spot sooo deep, meanwhile I look at this spot and feel like AKo should be folding as opposed to shipping here.
Villain doesn't know what CO has, and for all he knows CO could have AA/KK, not to mention the possibility that he's at best flipping against me likely, as played.
I'd fold if I was villain probably.. not sure how bad that is.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Villains AK seems like an easy shove pre, his flop shove is not that bad though. I don't hate your preflop play as much as the others do.
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I always see people very willing to ship AKo in this spot sooo deep, meanwhile I look at this spot and feel like AKo should be folding as opposed to shipping here.
Villain doesn't know what CO has, and for all he knows CO could have AA/KK, not to mention the possibility that he's at best flipping against me likely, as played.
I'd fold if I was villain probably.. not sure how bad that is. |
Oops, missed depth, sry. Folding is good yes.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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omg you folded KK?
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
omg you folded KK?
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Would that be bad? I mean, what does he have here realistically to this action that we beat with KK? AK is the bottom bottom of his range, and given the PF call (and not jam) I think we have to discount him having this hand a lot.
IFFF somehow he calls pre with AQs or something, then I think that makes KK snap call too, but I'm really not even sure he'd call with that here, to my sizing and to the action.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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i m not saying it would be bad or good, i m just marvelling at the entire hand
it kind of seems like monkeys clicking buttons
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
i m not saying it would be bad or good, i m just marvelling at the entire hand
it kind of seems like monkeys clicking buttons
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lol... it took two monkeys to pop that puppy up to $577 pre!
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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question: isn't kk better than aa in our position?
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
question: isn't kk better than aa in our position?
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I figured AA was better, cause KK could be shoving here, as opposed to us having KK and an insider, when we're also beat by AA which could be shipping.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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i really like calling again pre and i dont think you can fold this flop, you have too much equity
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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if its TT I would def call again preflop
as for on the flop, u have to call here, if he has QQ+ u got >30% (with TT, if its TT+ ur flipping) equity, if we add some random gay shit in his range its a clear call
preflop is very weird on so many lvls tho
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Haha, now this whole thread one big mess :P
You shouldn't post what villain had. Posting what you had yourself is obviously fine. If you think a hand is more interesting for villain, then you can post it from his perspective like you have done before.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Haha, now this whole thread one big mess :P
You shouldn't post what villain had. Posting what you had yourself is obviously fine. If you think a hand is more interesting for villain, then you can post it from his perspective like you have done before.
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haha yah you're prob right. I definitely should have posted this from villain's perspective.
Anyhow, I didn't post it from my perspective entirely, since I had QQ this hand and it was an easssssy instasnap call on flop. BUT if I had KK here in this spot, I might have actually contemplated a fold.
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