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pocketfours
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09-27-2008, 12:58 AM
Post subject: 5/10 220BB: flop the nuts but the turn spoils the fun
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Villain is 30/22/3.2 decent reg. I've been playing loose but solid. Comments on turn and river play?
Seat 3: SB ($3,822.70 in chips)
Seat 5: BB ($432.65 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO [ 10D,10C ] ($2,173.55 in chips)
Seat 9: CUTOFF ($1,134 in chips)
Seat 10: BUTTON ($985 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts small blind ($5), BB posts big blind ($10).
PRE-FLOP
HERO bets $35, CUTOFF folds, BUTTON folds, SB calls $30, BB folds.
FLOP [board cards: TH,2S,3S ]
SB checks, HERO bets $55, SB calls $55.
TURN [board cards: TH,2S,3S,6S ]
SB bets $140, HERO calls $140.
RIVER [board cards: TH,2S,3S,6S,9C ]
SB bets $240, HERO bets $750, SB calls $510.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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hmmm so I'm assuming your logic on this one was "pfft turn donk bet, I might still be ahead or I can fill up vs his flush".. "pfft whats this weak ass river bet? I'm probably ahead now.. so I jam?"
I'd just flat this river, cause I think the presence of the flush on the turn (even if he doesn't have it) makes his calling range of your jam polarized towards hands that beat you and most hands worse will fold.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
hmmm so I'm assuming your logic on this one was "pfft turn donk bet, I might still be ahead or I can fill up vs his flush".. "pfft whats this weak ass river bet? I'm probably ahead now.. so I jam?"
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Lol at the level-1 credit Griffey 
Think about my line and forget that you know what I had. Are you really folding a set to my raise? I think you aren't and shouldn't. My hand looks a lot like AsX and he probably doesn't think I would raise a set for value, since most people wouldn't in this spot. It's also pretty hard to put me on a flush since I didn't raise the turn, so I think I can rep a bluff pretty credibly here.
I usually don't go 'pfft' when I play btw
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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If you're willing to get it in on this board, why not raise turn when he has more draws that he'd be willing to put some more money in with than on the river when he'll fold his missed draws?
Hands like KsT or AsT will definitely be b/calling turn I'd imagine to a reasonable raise.
I have to think more about this hand. I think I play like a pussy when scare cards come and I slowdown in spots that I shouldn't. ie: I'm call/calling turn/river a very high percent of the time here.
edit: are you still raising river if he makes a stronger more convincing river bet?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
If you're willing to get it in on this board, why not raise turn when he has more draws that he'd be willing to put some more money in with than on the river when he'll fold his missed draws?
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What draws can he have on the turn after he calls the flop? I'm not saying a raise on the turn is bad though. In fact it might be the correct play here since villains SB calling range consists mostly of small pairs.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
edit: are you still raising river if he makes a stronger more convincing river bet?
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I would certainly be less inclined to do it. Not because it would change my perception of his range radically, but because I couldn't rep a bluff as credibly. Here he can't be sure if he induced the raise, so there's no way he can fold imo.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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I've been doing this more often recently with success. A lot of people retardedly give away their hands with river bet sizing
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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looks good to me
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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yeah id prob play this roughly the same
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Don't post results!
I like the turn call, not enough value raising imo. I think the river raise is thin, but good if he's thinking and not nitty.
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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The check call makes a flush a very small part of his range, and although i don't like his turn donk, you'll see people doing it with something that they are kind of concerned about like AT, two pair or it can also be a bluff/semibluff with one high spade.. His river bet looks incredibly blockish, and since we know he hardly ever has a flush here and he is likelier to bet bigger if he is continuing a bluff here this is a very easy raise for me. If he shoves over it's almost always a very easy fold ofc.
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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I guess i should also mention that he can talk himself into a call here with all sorts of hands here because he should know that he is going to have his blocking bet raised quite light. However the main thing for me is that against most opponents here i can be next to positive i have the nuts because of their flop/turn play.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
I like the turn call, not enough value raising imo. I think the river raise is thin, but good if he's thinking and not nitty.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bmxicle
The check call makes a flush a very small part of his range
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I don't think I agree with this entirely. Certainly not everyone is going to c/r a flush draw on this board when they are repping so little (sets and FD). Lots of ppl c/c flush draws and OOP float if the turn gets checked through to steal it on the river.
I agree that after the river bet I'm not convinced he's that strong, but I definitely think based on flop/turn lines he can have a flush here.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bmxicle
The check call makes a flush a very small part of his range
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I don't think I agree with this entirely. Certainly not everyone is going to c/r a flush draw on this board when they are repping so little (sets and FD). Lots of ppl c/c flush draws and OOP float if the turn gets checked through to steal it on the river.
I agree that after the river bet I'm not convinced he's that strong, but I definitely think based on flop/turn lines he can have a flush here. |
I think so too, even more so here because we are deep and he might not want to commit with a FD. The c/c actually makes 22/33 quite unlikely.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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raising the river as opposed to the turn seems absurd
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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