3bet pot conundrum

**IowaSkinsFan** · 03-24-2011 08:40 PM

Playing aejones, we have both been playing pretty aggressively so far. He hasn't been that out of line postflop, but is folding to 3bets about 48% preflop, 4betting semi thin and very small a lot, and is 3barrel bluffing a lot on good run outs. He has also been raising the flop in 3bet pots vs cbets really thin i.e. on QT2 rainbow board doing it with JTo. I haven't seen him continue much after I call his position raises postflop.

I have not 3bet his flop raises in this situation yet.

Full Tilt Poker Game #29309310349: Table Gemstone (heads up) - $10/$20 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:26:19 ET - 2011/03/24
Seat 1: aejones ($6,603)
Seat 2: Mirttinur ($4,180)
aejones posts the small blind of $10
Mirttinur posts the big blind of $20
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mirttinur [Jd Kh]
aejones raises to $60
Mirttinur raises to $200
aejones calls $140
*** FLOP *** [2s 8s Js]
Mirttinur bets $200
aejones has 15 seconds left to act
aejones raises to $500
Mirttinur has 15 seconds left to act
Mirttinur calls $300
*** TURN *** [2s 8s Js] [Ad]
Mirttinur checks
aejones bets $800
Mirttinur has 15 seconds left to act
Mirttinur folds

**pocketfours** · 03-24-2011 09:00 PM

I'd just fold to his flop raise, even with your read.

**aka_red** · 03-24-2011 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by pocketfours

I'd just fold to his flop raise, even with your read.

really? can you expand please.

**Toadstool** · 03-24-2011 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by reDZill4

really? can you expand please.

I assume it's because we're either WB/SA - you're OOP against a good aggressive player, and it is going to be easy to make exponentially bigger mistakes than folding here on later, more important streets?

**IowaSkinsFan** · 03-25-2011 07:55 AM

Cmon were going to cbet and fold a hand this strong vs player described? I say no.

**griffey24** · 03-25-2011 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Cmon were going to cbet and fold a hand this strong vs player described? I say no.

What's his bluffing tendency? Or rather, whats his tendency to continue on turns/rivers.

Speaking as a compulsive bluffer, I would say I'm more likely to bluff this particular board than some other Jxx type board.

**Toadstool** · 03-25-2011 04:23 PM

I was using some reasoning that might justify a flop fold, but I don't fold there either when you are towards the top of your range, and he can be value cutting himself given the JT example

**sauce123** · 03-25-2011 06:17 PM

standard

**IowaSkinsFan** · 03-25-2011 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by griffey24

What's his bluffing tendency? Or rather, whats his tendency to continue on turns/rivers.

Speaking as a compulsive bluffer, I would say I'm more likely to bluff this particular board than some other Jxx type board.

I've talked about his continuing tendencies in OP, he doesn't seem to continue too much.

I really do not have much of a guess about whether he is more or less likely to raise the flop here light.

**griffey24** · 03-25-2011 08:16 PM

Aside from the fact that this turn card is in general a good bluff card. I'd say in this particular spot its even better if villain assumes that we either put him on some Asx hand or a made hand, in which case most of his air should/would continue on this card.

Still not sure if we should c/c though, given we're crippled to part of his range, and will be in a gross spot facing a river bet on any card.

**pocketfours** · 03-25-2011 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Cmon were going to cbet and fold a hand this strong vs player described? I say no.

I think he is very likely going to continue with his bluffs on this particular board. Are you going to call him down on blanks with your read that he likes to give up? If that's your plan then fine, I like your line.

**nutsinho** · 03-28-2011 12:41 AM

i would call down prob

**nutsinho** · 03-28-2011 12:42 AM

his range is comprised of small flushes and weak semibluffs.

**IowaSkinsFan** · 03-28-2011 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by nutsinho

his range is comprised of small flushes and weak semibluffs.

You really think he doesn't play many other value hands the same way?

**Alexos** · 03-29-2011 07:28 PM

he must have sets in there too.

man i started creating a range in stove, but hu is so sick it would take me like 15min to do it right and even then my assumptions can be terrible. My guess is we're not doing too hot vs it, not sure I like calling down at all.

**nutsinho** · 03-30-2011 03:46 AM

i dunno its not a personal read its just how I generally perceive (good) people to play the spot in deep hu

03-24-2011 08:40 PM #1
IowaSkinsFan View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 8,895	3bet pot conundrum Playing aejones, we have both been playing pretty aggressively so far. He hasn't been that out of line postflop, but is folding to 3bets about 48% preflop, 4betting semi thin and very small a lot, and is 3barrel bluffing a lot on good run outs. He has also been raising the flop in 3bet pots vs cbets really thin i.e. on QT2 rainbow board doing it with JTo. I haven't seen him continue much after I call his position raises postflop. I have not 3bet his flop raises in this situation yet. Full Tilt Poker Game #29309310349: Table Gemstone (heads up) - $10/$20 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:26:19 ET - 2011/03/24 Seat 1: aejones ($6,603) Seat 2: Mirttinur ($4,180) aejones posts the small blind of $10 Mirttinur posts the big blind of $20 The button is in seat #1 * HOLE CARDS * Dealt to Mirttinur [Jd Kh] aejones raises to $60 Mirttinur raises to $200 aejones calls $140 * FLOP * [2s 8s Js] Mirttinur bets $200 aejones has 15 seconds left to act aejones raises to $500 Mirttinur has 15 seconds left to act Mirttinur calls $300 * TURN * [2s 8s Js] [Ad] Mirttinur checks aejones bets $800 Mirttinur has 15 seconds left to act Mirttinur folds
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03-24-2011 09:00 PM #2
pocketfours View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2007 Posts 2,570 Location Lighting sweet moneys on fire.	I'd just fold to his flop raise, even with your read.

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03-24-2011 09:56 PM #3
aka_red View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Nov 2004 Posts 1,384 Location house	Originally Posted by pocketfours I'd just fold to his flop raise, even with your read. really? can you expand please.

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03-24-2011 11:10 PM #4
Toadstool View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2005 Posts 492	Originally Posted by reDZill4 really? can you expand please. I assume it's because we're either WB/SA - you're OOP against a good aggressive player, and it is going to be easy to make exponentially bigger mistakes than folding here on later, more important streets?

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03-25-2011 07:55 AM #5
IowaSkinsFan View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 8,895	Cmon were going to cbet and fold a hand this strong vs player described? I say no.
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03-25-2011 04:06 PM #6
griffey24 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2006 Posts 4,929 Location Toronto'ish	Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan Cmon were going to cbet and fold a hand this strong vs player described? I say no. What's his bluffing tendency? Or rather, whats his tendency to continue on turns/rivers. Speaking as a compulsive bluffer, I would say I'm more likely to bluff this particular board than some other Jxx type board.
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03-25-2011 04:23 PM #7
Toadstool View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2005 Posts 492	I was using some reasoning that might justify a flop fold, but I don't fold there either when you are towards the top of your range, and he can be value cutting himself given the JT example

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03-25-2011 06:17 PM #8
sauce123 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2007 Posts 2,706 Location Dizzy	standard
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03-25-2011 07:25 PM #9
IowaSkinsFan View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 8,895	Originally Posted by griffey24 What's his bluffing tendency? Or rather, whats his tendency to continue on turns/rivers. Speaking as a compulsive bluffer, I would say I'm more likely to bluff this particular board than some other Jxx type board. I've talked about his continuing tendencies in OP, he doesn't seem to continue too much. I really do not have much of a guess about whether he is more or less likely to raise the flop here light.
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03-25-2011 08:16 PM #10
griffey24 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2006 Posts 4,929 Location Toronto'ish	Aside from the fact that this turn card is in general a good bluff card. I'd say in this particular spot its even better if villain assumes that we either put him on some Asx hand or a made hand, in which case most of his air should/would continue on this card. Still not sure if we should c/c though, given we're crippled to part of his range, and will be in a gross spot facing a river bet on any card.
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03-25-2011 09:02 PM #11
pocketfours View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2007 Posts 2,570 Location Lighting sweet moneys on fire.	Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan Cmon were going to cbet and fold a hand this strong vs player described? I say no. I think he is very likely going to continue with his bluffs on this particular board. Are you going to call him down on blanks with your read that he likes to give up? If that's your plan then fine, I like your line.

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03-28-2011 12:41 AM #12
nutsinho View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2005 Posts 3,840 Location flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt	i would call down prob
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03-28-2011 12:42 AM #13
nutsinho View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2005 Posts 3,840 Location flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt	his range is comprised of small flushes and weak semibluffs.
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03-28-2011 04:02 AM #14
IowaSkinsFan View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 8,895	Originally Posted by nutsinho his range is comprised of small flushes and weak semibluffs. You really think he doesn't play many other value hands the same way?
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03-29-2011 07:28 PM #15
Alexos View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Join Date Aug 2006 Posts 3,193 Location Montreal	he must have sets in there too. man i started creating a range in stove, but hu is so sick it would take me like 15min to do it right and even then my assumptions can be terrible. My guess is we're not doing too hot vs it, not sure I like calling down at all.
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03-30-2011 03:46 AM #16
nutsinho View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Sep 2005 Posts 3,840 Location flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt	i dunno its not a personal read its just how I generally perceive (good) people to play the spot in deep hu
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