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griffey24
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07-31-2008, 03:05 PM
Post subject: 3-betting, and then check/folding
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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So I recently got HEM this month and I've been trying to use the filters and find out some leaks as I've been running reasonably meh for a long while now.
I felt like I had some leaks in 3-bet pots and wasn't sure exactly. I filtered by pots where I 3-bet and I looked at the flop action. I noticed that I only c/f'd 10 out of 350 possible flops (mostly after 3-betting from the blinds and seeing the flop OOP). I have no idea if this is common or super low, but it seems REALLY low to me and seems like a big leak.
So my question is, what kind of things, flops, situations do people look for when they c/f a flop?
I c/f if:
1) I've been 3-betting villain a lot and I have a read that he folds to a ton of 3-bets and finally calls one and I whiff flop
2) If the flop is way way too coordinated and I'm likely to get jammed (ie:    )
3) If he bluff shoves too much and I have air and can't call (either c/r or c/shove are probably ok in this spot with A high and stuff)
4) If he floats/calls too many flop cont bets, and I don't have enough equity to comfortably double barrel
When do you check/fold after 3-betting preflop?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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just those 4 reasons and ur like half way to 10/350: i think application is the problem not knowing when to fold
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
just those 4 reasons and ur like half way to 10/350: i think application is the problem not knowing when to fold
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Yah I think you could be right. I probably know when I should be folding in theory and just don't do it in a game.
Cause really, 10/350 is so ridiculously low, I can't believe its that low really.
For anyone else using HEM, I'd be interested in seeing how often they c/f in 3-bet pots that see the flop.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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No love for the topic of check/folding in 3-bet pots?
I wouldn't post about it if I thought it was negligible. The fact of that matter is that if you pick 5 good spots to c/f instead of betting and spewing that continuation bet, you're probably saving around a buyin.
That seems like a pretty significant spot.
There must be something other than those 4 points I brought up that ppl think about when considering check/folding!?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i check fold in 3-bet pots a very large amount. Probably an exploitably large amount but thats just how playing out of position works imo.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i check fold in 3-bet pots a very large amount. Probably an exploitably large amount but thats just how playing out of position works imo.
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I'm assuming you protect yourself by check bombing a lot of flops as well, after 3-betting?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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sure but theres no way you can do it enough to totally protect yourself. good players in position are going to exploit you postflop.
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bair
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
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more c/ring and c/folding and less b/fing
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bair
more c/ring and c/folding and less b/fing
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I think this is a good plan against players that either call 3-bets in position too frequently, or are compulsive bettors when checked to.
Probably not the best plan against more passive players, who are likely to check through the flop with more of their marginal hands/pairs.
I think c/c against more aggro players has a pretty good place in 3-bet pots as well. Especially if they are the type that plays more straightforwardly on the turn once called.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Yeah I c/f a lot more than you and I think all the reasons you gave are legit reasons to c/f.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I c/f a lot because i threebet super light and people dont tend to call super light. When your range is weaker than your opponents range, especially much weaker, you want to play less aggressively and get to the river as cheap as possible.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I c/f a lot because i threebet super light and people dont tend to call super light. When your range is weaker than your opponents range, especially much weaker, you want to play less aggressively and get to the river as cheap as possible.
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Interesting.
Against weaker opponents at say the 200 and 400 level would you bet out more because they are calling lighter than you would expect and yet giving you more credit than they should?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I c/f a lot because i threebet super light and people dont tend to call super light. When your range is weaker than your opponents range, especially much weaker, you want to play less aggressively and get to the river as cheap as possible.
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Interesting.
Against weaker opponents at say the 200 and 400 level would you bet out more because they are calling lighter than you would expect and yet giving you more credit than they should? |
I wouldn't say so. I mean if they have a fld to threebet % of like 80% or greater im really just going for FE pre.
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