www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

2/4 - top two oop in 3bet pot - 300bb deep

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

zook

12-06-2008, 06:37 PM Post subject: 2/4 - top two oop in 3bet pot - 300bb deep

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

Villain is a weird and bad reg, runs 19/14/1.9 but goes to showdown too much and is capable of spew. 3bets 6.7%, 10% from btn.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flow

UTG ($1182)
MP ($2791.20)
Hero (CO) ($2073)
Button ($1282)
SB ($802)
BB ($830.50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q

, K

2 folds, Hero raises to $14, Button raises to $48, 2 folds, Hero calls $34

Flop: ($102) Q

, K

, 8

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $80, Hero raises to $300, Button calls $220

Turn: ($702) 10

(2 players)
Hero... ($930 eff. behind)

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

IowaSkinsFan

12-06-2008, 06:40 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

I think I like raising the flop a lot smaller, like 180. 300 is way too big and something like 220-260 makes your SPR 2 to 1 which is super bad.

Check out the new blog!!!

zook

12-06-2008, 06:49 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

Why is 300 too big when we're so deep, villain is bad and passive and I don't mind stacking off? It's pot.

griffey24

12-06-2008, 06:52 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

I'm torn between 450/fold and c/c here....

I don't mind the big flop raise, if your read is that he will call it light (ie: AK) or weakish draws.

Alexos

12-06-2008, 07:10 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Montreal

Posts: 2,766

c/r flop to 265 and c/f turn

Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //

Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.

sauce123

12-06-2008, 07:57 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Dizzy

Posts: 2,405

i dont understand why you would raise flop?
the idea is to get him to keep betting all his semibluffs and bluffs we have good equity against, not to whittle his range down to AK+

i think leading flop is ok, as is check/call, but cr sucks

once u cr flop, c/f this turn, but its ur own fault u have to fold top two

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

griffey24

12-06-2008, 08:27 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

i dont understand why you would raise flop?

Don't we need much better reads on villain, that he's capable of often double barreling air and even tripling sometimes here to not try building up some kind of pot with KQ on this drawy heavy flop?

I'm interested in this... cause I think I rarely rarely c/c here with this hand on this board.

zook

12-06-2008, 08:33 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

i dont understand why you would raise flop?

for value? before 1/3 the deck puts me behind or kills my action?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

once u cr flop, c/f this turn, but its ur own fault u have to fold top two

I don't really mind folding top two here b/c his range that I'm ahead of that calls my c/r and bets this turn is miniscule.

I know you're on a different level than I am, but I don't get c/c'ing this flop.

IowaSkinsFan

12-06-2008, 09:08 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

Why is 300 too big when we're so deep, villain is bad and passive and I don't mind stacking off? It's pot.

You can't raise to 300 because your making it almost impossible for you to bluff here.

I mean I think a small raise here looks relatively bluffy as its not really believeable your c/r much here at all besides KK/QQ/88/KQ. Also its a board where your going to see a lot of air cbets.

I think if our thoughts are opp is never going to make a big bluff back, then I think Ben is totally right. Most of the time we get it in were going to lose, but more of the time when he gets it in we will be winning.

Check out the new blog!!!

IowaSkinsFan

12-06-2008, 09:09 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

Also, you don't need to raise big if you raise because
a. You dont need to build a pot.
b. hands like straight draws or fd's aren't folding to a raise anyways, and sometimes they are repoping (if they repopped 100% of the time with draws then ofc we would feel super good about raising small, although obviously this isnt the case).

Check out the new blog!!!

nutsinho

12-07-2008, 10:48 AM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt

Posts: 3,280

lead flop, as played c/f turn. i think that c/ring this flop is fairly bad but c/c doesnt allow you to put enough money in with the great advantage you have gained in this hand.

My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.

sauce123

12-08-2008, 03:05 AM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Dizzy

Posts: 2,405

yea i agree with reads u have on opponent that lead>>c/c>>>>>>c/r

its not about inducing bluffs its also about inducing value bets from weaker hands/ value raises in the case of a lead

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

thizzSantaCruz

12-08-2008, 03:27 AM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Santa Cruz

Posts: 894

Send a message via AIM to thizzSantaCruz

so my take of what you guys are saying is a check raise is bad here because so many cards in the deck are bad for us and we won't know where we are. This allows our opponent to bluff us off our hands sometimes, and only stick the rest of the money in when hes good. So basically being out of position here this deep makes this hand difficult. Is that a good grasp of the situation?

Flopping quads and boats like its my job

IowaSkinsFan

12-08-2008, 04:53 AM

#14 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

Quote:

Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz

so my take of what you guys are saying is a check raise is bad here because so many cards in the deck are bad for us and we won't know where we are. This allows our opponent to bluff us off our hands sometimes, and only stick the rest of the money in when hes good. So basically being out of position here this deep makes this hand difficult. Is that a good grasp of the situation?

Pretty much no. It's playing our hand for its value. Essentially if the stacks get in chances are we are losing, because AK/AA are the only plausible hands that we beat that would plausibly call of their entire stack with, and we are not even sure that is true/ whether he's checking behind this flop with those hands anyways. So pretty much c/r flop, play for stacks doesn't have much, if any value.

Check out the new blog!!!

thizzSantaCruz

12-08-2008, 05:33 AM

#15 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Santa Cruz

Posts: 894

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz

Would you advocate checking behind AK and AA here? Assuming he doesn't and calls a check/raise (regardless of size here I'm trying to understand why a c/r is bad) with a range of AK, one combo of 88 ( I don't think he would be 3 betting 88 too much here) and QQ+ we have a huge equity edge.

*edit* didnt factor in times we get shoved on by huge combo draws but I don't think it really affects much becuase were flipping with them.

**edit** wow its 300bb deep....didn't realize that it all makes sense. sorry for the stupidity.

Flopping quads and boats like its my job

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:56 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

High Stakes NL Hold'em

2/4 - top two oop in 3bet pot - 300bb deep

Play for FREE and practice your game at...