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ilikeaces86
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02-28-2006, 08:18 PM
Post subject: 175BB semi bluff
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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***** Hand History for Game 3641099841 *****
$600 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, February 28, 16:12:37 ET 2006
Table Jimcat (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 3: HAHAHHAHAH ( $1178.47 )
Seat 6: jackseven ( $610.18 )
Seat 1: ilikeaces86x ( $1064.82 )
Seat 5: Pokerfan377 ( $226.57 )
Seat 2: SO_IC ( $619.05 )
jackseven posts small blind [$3].
ilikeaces86x posts big blind [$6].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ilikeaces86x [ Kh Ah ]
>You have options at Brasilia Table!.
SO_IC folds.
HAHAHHAHAH raises [$21].
Pokerfan377 folds.
jackseven folds.
ilikeaces86x calls [$15].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qh, Th, 4s ]
>You have options at Kabibe Table!.
>You have options at Leinani (No DP) Table!.
ilikeaces86x bets [$35].
HAHAHHAHAH raises [$120].
ilikeaces86x raises [$365].
>You have options at Kabibe Table!.
HAHAHHAHAH calls [$280].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6s ]
>You have options at Kabibe Table!.
ilikeaces86x is all-In [$643.82]
Villain is super laggy. Thats about all I notice about his play.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Why not make this play on the flop? You're a favorite over K-K, A-Q and K-Q, a virtual coinflip against A-A and Q-T. The only hand you're very worried about is a set, and even then you have about 30% equity. By the turn, your draw has gone way down in value, and you're basically just gambling on him folding.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Push for 1064 on the flop?
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Pingviini
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 1,090
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This line has more credibility.. Not that he would necessarily call here with KK anyways but for future purposes.. me likey. it is very possible that he would fold an overpair here. Not to mention that his range is pretty wide here, including QT..
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"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pingviini
This line has more credibility..
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Players at this level should be capable of calling a flop push on a board like that with a wide range. I like Ace's line too.
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Pingviini
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 1,090
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umm I ment that ace's line has more credibility than pushing the flop. Pushing screams like a draw.. I would think that he is more likely to call a flop push with AA than to actually call his 3-bet raise + turn AI. Who knows, someone might even fold top 2 there.
I think hero's main goal with a strong draw should be to make villain fold with a lot of money in the pot (hero's line here is good for that) OR proceed cautiously and get more money in if the draw hits. sounds simple but many people dont really think this. They just want to get AI on the flop with little money in the pot, lots of behind, and only be getting called with hands that are quite much better than his. On defence for flop AI is that villain is really active and we might want to slow him down ( or do we?)
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"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20
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PO$$E$$ED
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SITTING ON 'RILLA'S FINGER
Posts: 263
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well played
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Why does credibility matter when he's the favorite? His opponent either folds or calls all his chips off as an underdog. It doesn't even really matter if this guy "thinks" he's bluffing.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Why does credibility matter when he's the favorite? His opponent either folds or calls all his chips off as an underdog. It doesn't even really matter if this guy "thinks" he's bluffing.
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You discourage the bad end of the laggy villains wide range, while keeping the good end around when you've already decided to play for stacks in a pot that hasn't grown yet.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Pingviini
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 1,090
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He isnt necessarily a favourite and even if he is 52/48 it isnt necessarily max EV to get everything in on the flop. It should be more profitable to get some money in and make him fold mmmkay..
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"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Why does credibility matter when he's the favorite?
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When his edge on the flop is worth less if called all-in than the money already in the pot.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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The more I think about his the more I really like my line.
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poker2006
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 20
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I really like the play. It shows more strength then a push on the flop, and if villain was drawing in any way he now has only 1 card to come and is more likely to fold. Some hands that will call a flop push will lilely fold on the turn.
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--poker2006
My goal is to get better every day. The money will come by itself.
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naturaltan
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 108
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and the outcome was?
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by naturaltan
and the outcome was?
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Irrelevant.
(But interesting  )
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twosevoff
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pingviini
umm I ment that ace's line has more credibility than pushing the flop. Pushing screams like a draw.. I would think that he is more likely to call a flop push with AA than to actually call his 3-bet raise + turn AI. Who knows, someone might even fold top 2 there.
I think hero's main goal with a strong draw should be to make villain fold with a lot of money in the pot (hero's line here is good for that) OR proceed cautiously and get more money in if the draw hits. sounds simple but many people dont really think this. They just want to get AI on the flop with little money in the pot, lots of behind, and only be getting called with hands that are quite much better than his. On defence for flop AI is that villain is really active and we might want to slow him down ( or do we?)
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Very astute thinking.
I will make this play nearly every time i flop a hand i feel has at least 10 outs and i'm not against a set in situations like this, hoping the other guy will fold his overpair/top pair to my 3 bet.
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SinkRox
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 624
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by twosevoff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pingviini
umm I ment that ace's line has more credibility than pushing the flop. Pushing screams like a draw.. I would .. ( or do we?)
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Very astute thinking.
...to my 3 bet. |
just typing here so i can save these 2 quotes when back at my pc, nice notions 
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Experimenting - 200NL 5max.
"They say that dreams are real only as long as they last. Couldn't you say the same thing about life?" Waking life
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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I like this very much.
Notice how bet/3bet + lead gets well over 300bb in the middle in a heads up pot with only a 2-bet pf.
edit: without overbetting the pot.
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Staple Gun
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Gamblers Anonymous
Posts: 812
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IMO thats the perfect line. You have to raise the flop with that monster draw and hope he has something to pay you with. Pushing the flop is out of the question even after the raise, he only calls with a set or top-2 IMO but i wouldnt put him on top 2. You definetly cant check the turn, you're throwing away huge value and letting hands like AQ off way to easy, and with 12 outs minimum, and 40% of your stack in the pot I dont see how you cant make a strong bet there, you've shown great strength thus far and its definetly a +EV move.
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ender555
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 647
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aces,
I know this player, he is a very good, very thinking player. I have to assume if he's calling this flop, he's not folding on a blank turn, so I don't like it. That said, I also don't see what he would call the flop with besides J9h. I think it's possible that he put you on a lower set, so he just called with QQ and is planning on getting it all in on the turn even if a scare card comes.
edit: if he has J9h thats the only hand i see him calling and folding.
However, I do like the way you played the flop, it will definitely fold out AA/KK/AQ vs. this player. And on another note, I think you should be re-raising this hand vs. this player as he raises with a very large range like you said.
I think the only way this can be profitable, is if the player would be stupid enough to call the flop with AA/KK/AQ and then fold on a blank turn, which would be really dumb, but it probably happens.
What were the results? I'm really curious as to what hand HE played that way.
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ender555
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 647
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Why not make this play on the flop? You're a favorite over K-K, A-Q and K-Q, a virtual coinflip against A-A and Q-T. The only hand you're very worried about is a set, and even then you have about 30% equity. By the turn, your draw has gone way down in value, and you're basically just gambling on him folding.
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He's only going to call with a set. I agree pushing the turn is bad, as he will only call with a set as well. I think on the turn you have to C/F(he will move all in) as you have very little fold equity at this point, and imo are 90% up against a set here.
With smaller stacks this would be a much easier hand to play. As they are I'm really undecided as the best line. If I led-re-raised flop, I would slowdown on turn if called. If U C/R flop to say 150, and he re-raises you to 400-500, you can go ahead and get it all in and expect to see AA-KK -set , or get a fold. I think that would be the best line for this stack size, as it enables you to be up against a larger portion of his range.
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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Where have u been Ender? Watch out for Galactical on pp, guys a beast.
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ender555
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 647
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playin a lot of poker.....
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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Ender - you are putting him on the set because of the raise/call flop line? Would he play top 2 pair the same way
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ender555
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 647
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yes I just didn't consider that, top 2 he would play this way as well...
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