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Bmxicle
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11-20-2007, 08:02 AM
Post subject: 100ptbb deeeeep 10/20 HU ACTION
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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Villain and I have a lot of history HU, most of it involves me being up about 20 buyins on him over 5kish hands or so. His HU stats are about 35/25, and he is a monster calling station post flop. He gets into these calling moods where he just tilts and starts calling multiple streets with Ace high, mid pair etc when there is no chance i'm bluffing. The dynamics of the match are incredibly important here. He was in one of his huge calling station moods but then sucked out on me, this hand happened pretty soon after that so he probably has calmed down a bit, but ranges will still be very wide here.
a large range of sixes is fairly possible here, along with Q8+, 77+, AA and assorted straight draws, and turn flush draws off floats. Its very hard to narrow his range too much here so thats why i struggled with this river. He isn't likely to bluff to a check, but he will bet some queens (and better hands ofc) on the river should i check. What it do FTR?
$10/$20 No Limit Holdem
2 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
BTN ($4448.00)
Hero ($5472.00)
Pre-flop: ($30, 2 players) Hero is BB  
BTN raises to $60, Hero raises to $200, BTN calls $150
Flop:    ($440, 2 players)
Hero bets $315, BTN calls $315
Turn:  ($1070, 2 players)
Hero bets $755, BTN calls $755
River:  ($2580, 2 players)
Hero ($4202)?
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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villain has 3100ish on river i think.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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id bet $1600 and call a shove
u said hes calmed down so he might talk himself out of calling a shove where he might call a smaller bet. checking though is gross against the guy as described.
have you been 3 betting alot or does he put you on a pretty good hand here preflop ?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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id bet/fold 1860
against a guy like this i think id need 12 to 1 or better to call a river shove if he in fact shoves over a big bet just cause turned hearts is the only possibility and that seems so unlikely.
theres really no rhyme or reason to this just i think betting over 2k looks scary and anything with a 9 in it seems psychologically intimidating.
as for strategy seems like a trivially easy vbet vs a range of queens underpairs and sixes
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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oh yea keep posting
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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I guess this is why I don't play NL cash.
I would think the only reason to check is to check/raise and there is absolutely no way I could bet/fold this river.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I think everything he's calling he's betting and I highly doubt he bluffs over a bet so I kind of like c/c. For various other reasons too.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I think everything he's calling he's betting
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did you read his post?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I think everything he's calling he's betting and I highly doubt he bluffs over a bet so I kind of like c/c. For various other reasons too.
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r u crazy?
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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I actually think c/f is pretty standard here against solid opp, but with described dynamics I think sauce has got the right idea. Bet/fold 3/4 pot.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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you should have made it $1k on the turn and then you could just pot the river.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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stack size/ pot size isnt right for bet fold
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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In spots like this I put villain on a tighter range and trust my read, acting accordingly. It's your responsibility in a hard spot like this to not think too wide like...
Quote:
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a large range of sixes is fairly possible here, along with Q8+, 77+, AA and assorted straight draws, and turn flush draws off floats
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There are too many decisions to go along with this range, and keeping it wide in my mind can punish value. Narrow it down and trust it according to your relationship historically and in this session. How you narrow it down is up to you.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
stack size/ pot size isnt right for bet fold
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pot the river would be AI if he bet $1k on the turn.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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So I guess I mean shove the river huh
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
stack size/ pot size isnt right for bet fold
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i dont think this is that important against this opponent- if u think it is then bet/call
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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TheFaucet
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 21
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bet 2/3 pot, call a shove
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
In spots like this I put villain on a tighter range and trust my read, acting accordingly. It's your responsibility in a hard spot like this to not think too wide like...
Quote:
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a large range of sixes is fairly possible here, along with Q8+, 77+, AA and assorted straight draws, and turn flush draws off floats
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There are too many decisions to go along with this range, and keeping it wide in my mind can punish value. Narrow it down and trust it according to your relationship historically and in this session. How you narrow it down is up to you. |
That would be optimal, but this is his range. He is quite a bad player, and normally doesn't give me much trouble, but the whole issue of the hand is that betting puts me in an awkward spot when he shoves cause of his huge range but checking makes me miss out on certain value. I can narrow down his calling/shoving range to hands that beat me, all queens that he can have made it this far with, and i'd estimate about 30% of the time he will call off with something like tt when he has it.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
id bet/fold 1860
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seems like its this and not that close.
On a more nitpicky note, (and understandably its kinda difficult to plan these things out) optimal play would be to make it 220 pre, and size postflop bets to a bet bet shove motif.
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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the hand converter actually effed it up, i did make it 220 pf, however i agree with the bet sizing for post flop.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I think betting the river is completely clear, it's just a question of whether or not you should call a raise. Probably not.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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haven t read any replies yet bmx but just wanna say plz keep posting we never hear from you and I seem to dig all of your posts (I remember one a while ago that went bet-bluff shove with K9high or some shit on flop w history vs some villain in particular).
I really don't know what to do here. For some reason I think betting small (like 1/3 pot or less) would be good to induce a raise.
But maybe that's because I just want an excuse to call a shove.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Bet 1550 then cry when he shoves.
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The Grouch
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: representing a narrow range
Posts: 26
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i think bet/fold is pretty std here with the bet sizing sauce suggested
but if he the type who would overvalue a decent Q here (to the extent that he actually thinks he is slowplaying it on previous streets) then 
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Bmx what do weight his range as like how often does he have 57? Is he calling 3 bets pre very light or will he never show up with it?
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