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IowaSkinsFan
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07-26-2008, 03:14 PM
Post subject: 10/20 soul read spot
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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tjbentham is uber aggro player who plays 25/50 and 10/20. I really have not played with him before, although I'm pretty sure he thinks im just another reg fish he's never seen before. After playing with him I threebet this pre like everytime, but with my current knowledge and image im pretty sure calling was correct.
Thoughts: Turn and river was an insta bet, which kind of made me think as soon as i called the flop he planned to keep betting. The river bet seems like its a bluff, I know no one ever folds a boat but i hadn't been out of line at all so far.
Thoughts appreciated.
POKERSTARS GAME #19113179911: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($10/$20) - 2008/07/26 - 09:37:57 (ET)
Table 'Pannekoek' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Deldar182 ($5175 in chips)
Seat 3: loosefer ($2805 in chips)
Seat 4: heybude ($2080 in chips)
Seat 5: 171958 ($1338 in chips)
Seat 6: tjbentham ($4165.50 in chips)
heybude: posts small blind $10
171958: posts big blind $20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [Th Tc]
tjbentham: raises $40 to $60
Deldar182: folds
loosefer: folds
heybude: calls $50
171958: folds
*** FLOP *** [Kh Kc Kd]
heybude: checks
tjbentham: bets $120
heybude: calls $120
*** TURN *** [Kh Kc Kd] [2d]
heybude: checks
tjbentham: bets $320
heybude: calls $320
*** RIVER *** [Kh Kc Kd 2d] [2h]
heybude: checks
tjbentham: bets $3665.50 and is all-in (about 1500 into a 1000)
heybude:
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Sykedupp
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 550
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I dont play HS but isnt his range basically 33+, Kx, bluffs?
I think its a relatively easy call, considering how weighted his range is to 33+/bluffs.
Then again, I am LOLDONKAMENTS player..
-Chris
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by soupie
That is the beauty of poker, it doesnt matter how they play, you can always devise the perfect defense and counterpunch hard.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sykedupp
I dont play HS but isnt his range basically 33+, Kx, bluffs?
I think its a relatively easy call, considering how weighted his range is to 33+/bluffs.
Then again, I am LOLDONKAMENTS player..
-Chris
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Yeah more like maybe 99+/bluffs? Probably not 99 though for realz.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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It looks like he doesn't want a call.
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Sykedupp
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 550
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ISF, you dont think he ever turns some small SD value hands (33-99) into bluffs with how weak you look? If not, then I agree he's either totally bluffshoving or valushoving 99+/Kx.. If he ever turns his weaker hands into bluffs I think a call is good.. If he doesnt then it's pretty close I think.
-Chris
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by soupie
That is the beauty of poker, it doesnt matter how they play, you can always devise the perfect defense and counterpunch hard.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sykedupp
ISF, you dont think he ever turns some small SD value hands (33-99) into bluffs with how weak you look? If not, then I agree he's either totally bluffshoving or valushoving 99+/Kx.. If he ever turns his weaker hands into bluffs I think a call is good.. If he doesnt then it's pretty close I think.
-Chris
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33-99 would be pretty bad hands to take a 3 barrel bluff line with so yeah, I highly highly doubt it.
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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I have polarized his hand to AJ
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I don't think his range is weighted to 33+ at all here, I'd say its either like JJ+ or bluffs.
His shove on the river is such a level, that I'd say its such a game flow/timing /feel decision.
He'd for sure play AA/QQ/JJ the same I'd imagine.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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I think you think he thinks too much like you
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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i dont like folding hands vs uber aggro
and TT is the top of your perceived range. he can easily take big pairs out of your range and put med pairs in, and feel his fe is huge.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
i dont like folding hands vs uber aggro
and TT is the top of your perceived range. he can easily take big pairs out of your range and put med pairs in, and feel his fe is huge.
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99=33 so i dont think he rly cares.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
i dont like folding hands vs uber aggro
and TT is the top of your perceived range. he can easily take big pairs out of your range and put med pairs in, and feel his fe is huge.
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99=33 so i dont think he rly cares. |
but thats my point. he wants you to fold all those
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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call
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Isn't the turn like the worst spot imaginable to double barrel?
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Isn't the turn like the worst spot imaginable to double barrel?
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not if u shove rivers, id call too
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i like calling with a hand this high in my range
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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yeah I agree with renton. Your hand is basically above the range he thinks you should have. So you are gonna snap off so many of his bluffs though u are only getting value from bluffs as he really isn't gonna go for the valuerown wight less.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i've been thinking about this hand.
I actually think this is a very very tough spot and very likely a fold. The truth is, we aren't very high in our range at all I don't think. We'd probably never get to this river with less than 99, and we can definitely have JJ, and I personally can have QQ+ here with some small >5% frequency. So in that light TT is probably in the bottom 50% of your range for sure.
He's shoving 1500 into 1000, so we need to fold 66% of the time for his shove with air to show a profit. From a game theoretical-optimal standpoint TT is a fold and JJ is a call, i'd estimate.
The other problem is that there is a massive amount of legitimate hands in his range. KTs+ KQ+ 22 QQ+, thats a lot of combinations of hands which, as we all know, allows him to bluff a lot of combinations of air before we can do shit about it.
I fold, call JJ+.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bmxicle
yeah I agree with renton. Your hand is basically above the range he thinks you should have. So you are gonna snap off so many of his bluffs though u are only getting value from bluffs as he really isn't gonna go for the valuerown wight less.
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I think this whole thing about me having above the range he would put me is trivial. I'm either folding 33-TT or I'm not.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Its not trivial at all, imo. When you are unaware of villains tendencies (other than that he's simply a very aggro reg) or what he thinks of you, you have nothing to go on really and your next best bet is to avoid being exploited by air. You'd do so by calling with at least the top 33% of your range, no?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Its not trivial at all, imo. When you are unaware of villains tendencies (other than that he's simply a very aggro reg) or what he thinks of you, you have nothing to go on really and your next best bet is to avoid being exploited by air. You'd do so by calling with at least the top 33% of your range, no?
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Well I'm not saying I shouldn't call here, in fact I did. I do like your point about calling the top 33% to be unexploitable, but it really doesnt matter what 33% i use me thinks.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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well naturally, the top 33% would be best, since theres a slight chance he can merge you with worse
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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and obviously that is the only surefire way to randomize
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Aight so I pretty much agreed with the fact that that bet size may not in fact be the one he'd make with quads or overpair and that this is a call. So I called, he had AJo, ship it!
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