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10/20 NL KK deep vs Bbuddy

  
 
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ilikeaces86
Old 10-20-2006, 04:12 AM     Post subject: 10/20 NL KK deep vs Bbuddy #1 (permalink)  
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 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($829.80)
Button ($2815.60)
SB ($4439)
BB ($2457)
UTG ($2000)
MP1 ($3708.50)
Hero ($4301)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K, K.
1 fold, MP1 raises to $80, Hero raises to $280, 4 folds, MP1 raises to $960, Hero calls $680.

Flop: ($1950) 9, 6, 2 (2 players)
MP1 bets $900, Hero raises to $3341, MP1 calls $1848.50 (All-In).




Up to this point we haven't tangled at all. He seems to be playing fairly tight and not making too many moves.
Super standard?
Final Pot: $8039.50
 
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Iwind
Old 10-20-2006, 05:57 AM #2 (permalink)  
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I think this is a fold, but it depends on how you are playing, you say you haven't tangled with him before, but have you been 3-betting other people at the table light? If your 3-bet range preflop is tight, and you've never 3-bet him preflop before this session I find it very unlikely that your kings are good here.

He raises from early position, you 3-bet him in middle position, he 4-bets and you call. A tight player would probably not 4-bet anything but AA/KK here, and he would certainly shut down on flop, calling that 4-bet is showing a LOT of strength after all. He has to put you on AA/KK, and when he then bets into you on flop I think this is a spot where you can fold KK.

If it had been some late position battle between laggs it would have been different, but this is early position and a tight player, not having a history earlier this session I can't see he would have any reason to try to bluff you off KK here.
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aislephive
Old 10-20-2006, 07:16 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Really tough spot, BBuddy can be a pretty wild pain in the ass when he wants to be. I'm sure your image is very tight and your 3 betting range pretty thin given the circumstances, it's hard to imagine that the majority of his range isn't AA/KK, maybe a small percentage AK and QQ. I think that a flop push only gets called by AA, you're better off either folding on the flop or calling the flop and folding to a turn shove despite getting good odds on a call.
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pantherhound
Old 10-22-2006, 05:11 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 dumb question but how are you actually playing? i thought ure american? did u move?
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Warpe
Old 10-22-2006, 05:19 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantherhound
dumb question but how are you actually playing? i thought ure american? did u move?
PokerStars hasn't withdrawn from the US market.
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Muzzard
Old 10-22-2006, 08:50 PM #6 (permalink)  
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How come you didn't push preflop after the raise to $900-ish?
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DaNutsInYoEye
Old 10-22-2006, 09:49 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerMuzz
How come you didn't push preflop after the raise to $900-ish?
If the guy has AA he is going broke regardless if he decides to push pre-flop or on the flop. Against lesser hands though a 5-bet screams AA/KK and allows a hand like QQ or AK to get away. He has position and, since hands like QQ or AK are going to c-bet the flop a large percentage of the time, it allows him to get more money in the pot against hands he beats.
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dsaxton
Old 10-23-2006, 04:12 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Calling preflop just to fold on the flop is retarded. Either fold preflop, or play it like this.
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Iwind
Old 10-23-2006, 06:27 AM #9 (permalink)  
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I don't think so, QQ might 4-bet preflop but will probably slow down once he calls, AA on the other hand will not, nothing he beats calls that push on flop.
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Margin Of Error
Old 10-23-2006, 08:12 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Calling preflop just to fold on the flop is retarded. Either fold preflop, or play it like this.

Unless an ace comes on the flop I dont see any way your getting away from this hand, why not just fold to the 3 bet or push pf?
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scgolfer
Old 10-23-2006, 09:24 AM #11 (permalink)  
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I dunno , anyone want to stake me?
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ilikeaces86
Old 10-23-2006, 05:25 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgolfer
I dunno , anyone want to stake me?
LOL donkaments
 
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Rondavu
Old 10-23-2006, 05:52 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
Unless an ace comes on the flop I dont see any way your getting away from this hand, why not just fold to the 3 bet or call to extract more value from hands you're ahead of on a wide range of flops, while not encouraging those hands to fold preflop
Fixed your post
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Margin Of Error
Old 10-23-2006, 06:44 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
Unless an ace comes on the flop I dont see any way your getting away from this hand, why not just fold to the 3 bet or call to extract more value from hands you're ahead of on a wide range of flops, while not encouraging those hands to fold preflop
Fixed your post
Is anything less than KK calling the flop push? If villian is willing to play for stacks with anything other than AA/KK postflop hes probably willing to get it all in PF.
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mcatdog
Old 10-23-2006, 10:11 PM #15 (permalink)  
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I agree with Margin of Error. BBuddy isn't stupid. I fail to see why he's any more likely to call the flop push with QQ/JJ than he is to call a preflop push.
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DaNutsInYoEye
Old 10-24-2006, 01:04 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
I agree with Margin of Error. BBuddy isn't stupid. I fail to see why he's any more likely to call the flop push with QQ/JJ than he is to call a preflop push.
No one said he was. You're probably going to get more money in the pot against though hands though by just calling the 4-bet.
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F1shRapeme
Old 10-24-2006, 01:46 AM #17 (permalink)  
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nice resuck
and how many hands do you get in in an hour on stars
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nutsinho
Old 10-24-2006, 01:53 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
I agree with Margin of Error. BBuddy isn't stupid. I fail to see why he's any more likely to call the flop push with QQ/JJ than he is to call a preflop push.
no one said anything about all the money going in if ilikeaces is ahead--this is what is meant by extracting more value by calling preflop:

Flop: ($1950) 9 , 6 , 2 (2 players)
MP1 bets $900
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jackvance
Old 10-24-2006, 02:07 AM #19 (permalink)  
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 It's kind of hard to fathom what he has that you beat here.. amazing pot size btw.. and don't forget to post results kk?
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m3laNcholy
Old 10-25-2006, 11:19 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Same thing. Since I pretty much have predecided that I will go broke against AA, I let him hang him self. Do you see him calling a flop push?

Hand #445702452 at table: Table TH 397
Started: Tue Oct 24 18:40:29 2006

Forzza is at seat 1 with 761.50
RAY_VON is at seat 2 with 2773.00
kiutsushou is at seat 3 with 3763.00
Scorpy21 is at seat 4 with 1005.00
the mole is at seat 5 with 167.51

kiutsushou posts the large blind 10.00
RAY_VON posts the small blind 5.00

RAY_VON: --, --
kiutsushou: Kh, Kc
Scorpy21: --, --
the mole: --, --
Forzza: --, --

Pre-flop:

Scorpy21: Fold
the mole: Fold
Forzza: Fold
RAY_VON: Raise 50.00
kiutsushou: Raise 150.00
RAY_VON: Raise 410.00
kiutsushou: Call 410.00

Flop (Board: 3d, 6d, 4h):

RAY_VON: Bet 800.00
kiutsushou: Call 800.00

Turn (Board: 3d, 6d, 4h, Ah):

RAY_VON: All in
kiutsushou: Call 1568.00

River (Board: 3d, 6d, 4h, Ah, Ad):


Showdown:

kiutsushou shows: Kh, Kc (two pair, Aces and Kings)
RAY_VON shows: Jh, Jd (two pair, Aces and Jacks)

Mainpot:
kiutsushou wins the pot of 5553.00 with two pair, Aces and Kings

(3.00 rake were taken for this hand)
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Dumma$$
Old 10-26-2006, 06:15 PM #21 (permalink)  

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pantherhound
Old 11-10-2006, 06:09 PM #22 (permalink)  
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 Ilikeaces86 the result of this old old hand plz?
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gabe
Old 11-10-2006, 06:31 PM #23 (permalink)  
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pretty sure bbduddy had aa
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ilikeaces86
Old 11-10-2006, 11:04 PM #24 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
pretty sure bbduddy had aa
OBV
 
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johnny_fish
Old 11-11-2006, 07:39 AM #25 (permalink)  
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Just another AA vs KK thread ..

*yawn*
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NLHE lahooozaher
Old 11-14-2006, 07:42 AM #26 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeaces86
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
pretty sure bbduddy had aa
OBV
Pretty sure Aces sucked out against Buddys Aces.
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pokerroomace
Old 11-19-2006, 11:43 PM #27 (permalink)  
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is there no way to get away from KK vs AA? this is the best chance you'll ever have to get away from KK vs AA. why didn't ilikeaces get away from it? is it because the chance that he has AK or QQ is too great to risk it?

btw, i saw a vid on youtube today of greenstein (AA) vs farha (KK). $360k pot. allin preflop. farha won.
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Iwind
Old 11-20-2006, 08:17 AM #28 (permalink)  
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There is a way, but sometimes it's easier to click the all in button than the fold button, even if you know you should fold.
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