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zomg I'm gonna fold 88 to a pfr

  
 
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wufwugy
Old 01-04-2008, 03:09 AM     Post subject: zomg I'm gonna fold 88 to a pfr #1 (permalink)  
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 So like I brought up in the other thread, calling raises from decent players with the sole purpose of set mining may be a leak. Best is going to be if we can take stabs postflop for a profit. This hand is about as close to that OP as it's gonna get.

Villian is 12/8 reg, other player is 40/3 donk.

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG+2: $343.20
MP1: $95.75
MP2: $159
CO: $47
BTN: $236.25
SB: $209.05
Hero (BB): $225.30
UTG: $195
UTG+1: $214

Pre-Flop: 8 8 dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $7, 5 folds, SB calls $6, Hero calls $5

Flop: ($21) 7 K 2 (3 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14

I'm not exactly sure what to look for here. The 12/8 probably isn't that creative, and isn't really gonna notice my slight deviations in bet sizing and range balancing. I figure he folds stuff like AQ 99- real easy. I think these types of multiway pots are gonna be good ways of getting folds from better hands since everybody in our game knows that putting money in here means I have a big hand.

So do we bet/shutdown, crai, bet/double, nothing because this board/villian/pos is neg ev, or what??
 
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Warpe
Old 01-04-2008, 03:09 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Bet more when you don't want a call, shutdown to resistance.

c/f works too.



 
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Chopper
Old 01-04-2008, 03:19 PM #3 (permalink)  
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lead w/ JJ+, c/f with less.

not a good flop for you in a raised pot, 3 way.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Warpe
Old 01-04-2008, 03:55 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 ^^^^ yeah, this board def sucks, esp when we're donking into a pfrer.

On a dry board, I'm willing to take stabs with any pp I routinely raise UTG .



 
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pgil
Old 01-04-2008, 03:59 PM #5 (permalink)  
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i don't think donkeys know this though. with him still in the hand I wouldn't mind a cf, possibly an occasional CR if the donkey folds to the cbet. i wouldn't want to do either on this flop though. there are too many hands that you can have here and be donk betting/c-ring. there are also too many hands that can be calling you because of this.

A completely ragged board or a very scary board would seem to be the best ones to try and push villain out of the pot. a call from this guy as described probably means he has you beat and isn't going to be folding, so cf turn works well. It also helps those times you donk your sets, then check the turn.
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
 
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Renton
Old 01-04-2008, 05:26 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 this, check raising, check folding are all viable options

also set value is enough here. You aren't "committed" to bluffing postflop.
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wufwugy
Old 01-04-2008, 09:53 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 A bet here isn't a bluff a lot of the time. It's me trying to take down the pot with my vulnerable hand. Nobody's folding a king or flush draw, but the pfr may instamuck QQ. I figure this to be a good flop to try to take down due to the scarcity of hands that hit. Biggest problem is with how many kings the pfr has in his range. I much prefer a jack out than a king. On a low flop i'll fold out pfr's overs but not his PPs, on scary board probably more stuff, but I really have little experience bluffing scary stuff on early streets.

Seems agreed to shutdown on turn, which is really the most important aspect I think. I really don't like the idea of single street bluffing, though. There's just something 'weak' and exploitable about that. But if opposition doesn't notice then it's fine I guess.
 
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Chopper
Old 01-05-2008, 01:33 AM #8 (permalink)  
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i read something awhile back that has you "pegged." poster was stating that he raises these "weak leads" or donk bets almost all the time. his reasoning...the only thing doing this is a mid pp or overs, something extremely vulnerable, but strong enough to try and steal early.

i stopped donk betting as much, and viola, stopped picking up pots i'm accustomed to taking. i think this is a decent spot to steal against probable trash (like i said, i dont do it alot), but if i hold the K or flush draw, i raise your ass to see how much you like your hand.

as for single street bluffing, i do it all the time, too. i will follow through on scare cards, though, like paired cards and A's and completed draws. that results in about 30% of the time i bluff, i think. just a guess. but, it should be enough to keep opponents thinking i may follow through again, and, of course, when i hit, i keep firing to get value out of real hands.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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