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Yowch! What'd I run into?

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DaHorror

01-10-2006, 04:46 PM Post subject: Yowch! What'd I run into?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($3.80)
UTG ($9.00)
UTG+1 ($5.25)
UTG+2 ($12.00)
MP1 ($6.75)
MP2 ($9.85)
Hero ($10.25)
CO ($4.55)
Button ($7.25)
SB ($17.40)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with :Kd: :Qd:. SB posts a blind of $0.05.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, 1 fold, Button calls $0.10, SB (poster) calls $0.05, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.60) :Qc: :Th:

(6 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $0.40, Button folds, SB calls $0.40, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $0.40.

Turn: ($1.80)

(3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $1.25, SB calls $1.25, MP2 folds.

River

$4.30)

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.00, SB raises $7.00, ...

An interesting poker problem as this happens often enough. I rarely call these - at my level, the big river reraise means you are beat, in general.

Let's assume readless for the moment. Does anyone make this call?
If so, what do you put the SB on?

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Miffed22001

01-10-2006, 04:49 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Busted draw.
Call.

bair

01-10-2006, 05:00 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 953

he sees your river bet as a weak blocking bet and tries to take advantage of it when the board pairs, i'd call

IowaSkinsFan

01-10-2006, 05:18 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

I know you don't have any reads, but I think this is a bluff.
Reasons I think it's a bluff:
1. Your bets have been extremely weak the entire way. A river raise is a good bluffing oppurtunity
2. there is a semi scare card.
3. His raise on the river is very high even though you seem very scared, claerly he's not value betting.

DaHorror

01-10-2006, 09:27 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

Gosh I couldn't fool anybody - even readless. Most times readless this is a fold to me - someone strangely slow-playing trips somewhere - though even then I'd expect a smaller river raise.

But my read on this guy was that he was a call call bluff any river scare card player.

Hero calls $7.00

Hero shows :Kd: :Qd:
A pair of Queens.

SB shows :Jc: 9

High card King.

Hero wins $19.30 with a pair of Queens.

So I intentionally bet the river weakly to seem a little wary and give him an opportunity to bluff. He of course bit, though I didn't expect such a big bluff (usually he wasn't so aggressive). I couldn't click the call button fast enough

Good guesses by all three of ya!

EricE

01-10-2006, 09:32 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 894

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHorror

I couldn't click the call button fast enough

This is what I don't understand. I see this often. If you put him on a bluff, why not reraise?

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

DaHorror

01-10-2006, 09:41 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

Well - he only had like $1.50 left after his river bluff and I had even less...I lost a few pennies.
But this way everyone generally gets to see what cards he's holding...just to be mean

DaHorror

01-10-2006, 09:42 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

Hmmm...that's not quite right - he had more - but I didn't have much left - anyhow it was the show that I was going for.

Staple Gun

01-11-2006, 03:55 AM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Gamblers Anonymous

Posts: 812

If he puts him on a bluff and reraises, the other guy will auto-fold, BUT if the other guy had a better hand he would instacall. Its a win nothing or lose more situation, TP isnt strong enough here to raise when you can call to see a showdown.

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bdawg56kg

01-11-2006, 08:48 AM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricE

This is what I don't understand. I see this often. If you put him on a bluff, why not reraise?

If you put villian on a bluff, then reraising will earn you the same as a call will. But if your read is wrong and villian has a monster, then you lose a lot more money by raising versus calling. If you have a monster, then reraising is automatic, but the only reason to reraise in hero's position with TPGK is if he thinks villian will call with a worse hand, something like QJ or Tx, which is highly unlikely.

In regards to the hand, what was the point of the small river bet? If it was done to induce a bluff, then nice hand and well played, but otherwise you should bet more like 1/2 - 2/3 pot or just check behind.

Edit: Never mind, I just read your follow up post. Nice hand!

DaHorror

01-11-2006, 06:01 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

The last two replies are correct as well in my thinking - you protect a little bit on the back end by not reraising with just one pair - and if he's bluffing he's just going to fold anyway most likely. I am not quite sure why he didn't just put me allin since he came close - maybe a miscalculation on his part.

Anyhow - thanks for the kudos bdawg - this was one I was proud of because it was a 'play the player' type of hand rather than just flat out ABC poker. And I thought it was an interesting discussion hand in general - though I honestly expected a few more "fold he's got a boat" type responses

rubixstreub

01-11-2006, 06:07 PM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 887

Seriously, this is a bluff more often than a noob slow playing a set/fullhouse, especially at this level??? I would instanta fold this- I've learned something today. Does his lack of turn action totally give away his hand?

Come give me advice.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-58488.htm

DaHorror

01-11-2006, 10:34 PM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

I'm not sure why the others saw the bluff so easily without a read. For me it was a purely read-based call (since I induced the bluff anyway).

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Yowch! What'd I run into?

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