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Warpe
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03-30-2006, 05:53 PM
Post subject: Your line to destack?
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
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I'm pretty sure UTG+1 has just made his flush on the river...
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $22.25
UTG+1: $42.30
CO: $62.95
Button: $11.75
SB: $25.45
Hero: $50.85
Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 6 6
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $1.75, 2 folds, SB calls $1.5, Hero calls $1.25.
Flop: 5 4 3 ($5.25, 3 players)
SB bets $0.5, Hero calls $0.5, UTG+1 calls $0.5.
Turn: J ($6.75, 3 players)
SB bets $0.5, Hero calls $0.5, UTG+1 calls $0.5.
River: 7 ($8.25, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero ???
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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I'm torn between check/raising all-in and just open pushing.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I'm torn between check/raising all-in and just open pushing.
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No middle ground?
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Bear Bones
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 70
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I think you need to generate action on the (flop or) turn. OESFD and overpair with a big raise preflop and a 1/10 pot bet from the preflop caller. Preflop raiser's call on the flop bet looks like a wiffed AK. I think a push on the river looks like you are trying to buy the pot and may get a call from the K or A but it's hard to see getting called here.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I'm torn between check/raising all-in and just open pushing.
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No middle ground? |
I like to bet lots of money with hands like this and cackle with glee when hands without the A call.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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My thinking on streets prior was that there was a good chance I was up against a pair that beats me from SB or UTG+1, so I was going to play this for the draw and see what I could cobble together as cheaply as possible. Then it became obvious that both were drawing or were unsure about where they stood. SB then checks the river, so he's afraid of the flush...1 down. That leaves UTG+1, who raised preflop, probably with an ace and possibly As. If he's holding the ace, he's coming over the top of me if I take a weak stab, so...
River: 7 ($8.25, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, UTG+1 raises to $8, SB folds, Hero raises all-in $48.1, UTG+1 calls all-in $31.55.
Uncalled bets: $8.55 returned to Hero.
Results:
Final pot: $87.35
Hero showed 6s 6c
UTG+1 mucks As Th
UTG+1 typed "6?" in the chat before he called.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
UTG+1 typed "6?" in the chat before he called.
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lol. They always call, it's great.
Yeah, you're stacking A like 99% of the time. He's raising the bet and calling the push when he really should fold. On second thought, I like the bet to get all sorts of weird calls. Maybe pot it?
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Maybe pot it?
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Yeah, that's probably better. Gets a bigger commitment out of him when he raises me, and makes it more likely that the calls the a/i. I just didn't want to appear too eager, if ya know what i mean.
Edit: Also makes for a bigger pot if he just calls. Doh! Next time...
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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push
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I'm torn between check/raising all-in and just open pushing.
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Why would you risk this getting checked down? I would bet 2x pot or just open-push.
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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For me, the best chance to get as many chips into the middle as possible on the river, comes down to (i) the image you think that opponent has of you, and (ii) to a lesser degree, how much of a donk I think they are. If they consider you conservative, then a small "value bet" hoping for a raise is better than a massive over-bet. If you've got a wild image, a massive over-bet has a better chance of being interpreted as a steal attempt. Someone low on the donk spectrum is more likely to get the disguised value bet line, and the donks (who love to call as we all know) tend to get the over-bet line.
Playing live, lately I've increased the frequency of using the massive over-bet line when I got a nutty hand on the river, and I'm still amazed at the number of calls I'm getting. Then again, I've established a nice laggy image that's obviously being leveraged when I get these calls.
I like a CR attempt the least; you run the risk of the dreaded check behind where you'd obviously be leaving some definite value behind.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
Why would you risk this getting checked down? I would bet 2x pot or just open-push.
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My thinking was that the straight flush is so obvious on the board that if I pushed even the A-high flush might not call.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Why would you risk this getting checked down? I would bet 2x pot or just open-push.
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My thinking was that the straight flush is so obvious on the board that if I pushed even the A-high flush might not call.[/QUOTE]
do 50nl players really have that discipline?
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
UTG+1 typed "6?" in the chat before he called.
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This one was certainly aware of the possibility. Would he have had the discipline to fold the nut-flush to an open-push without committing a chunk of his stack first...?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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if you bet you give him the option to call i guess with the second bet hand.
If you push you allow him to get away from the 2nd best hand where we 'could' just be bluffing.
Id still push and see if he likes it too much
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Id still push and see if he likes it too much
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You're probably right. Would've been a courageous laydown on his part, or a wincing call, one of the two.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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im enjoying the conversation.
Not because i like you  (i do honestly! )
but because i get to see more and more of that avatar
Hijack complete
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RiverMonkey
Playing live, lately I've increased the frequency of using the massive over-bet line when I got a nutty hand on the river, and I'm still amazed at the number of calls I'm getting.
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QFT. You don't even need that bad of an image to pull it off. Everyone wants to be a hero.
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WhooFleuryScores
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 918
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WOw I wish my straight flushes made that much lol.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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check behind youre obv beaten
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