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Warpe

05-18-2006, 02:35 PM Post subject: You are Villain...

#1 (permalink)

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You're Villain and you're laggy. What do you think of your play? How about Hero's? What do you put him on?

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $51.65
Villain: $80.67
MP1: $51.30
MP2: $44
MP3: $52.60
Hero: $58.74
Button: $101.85
SB: $49
BB: $34.25

Pre-flop: (9 players) Villain is MP1 with K

2 folds, Villain raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero (CO) calls, 3 folds.

Flop: T

($4.75, 2 players)
Villain bets $3, Hero raises to $9, Villain calls.

Turn: 7

($22.75, 2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $20, Villain raises all-in $40.3, Hero calls.

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crushednuts

05-18-2006, 03:14 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Posts: 106

I would be suspicious when you raised me on the flop. I would start to get the feeling I was beat here. I bet the Hero had a set of tens or TPTK. I Would reraise you on the flop as calling accomplishes nothing. Also, why reraise all in on the turn if you aren't betting out?? I just don't understand his turn play here..I would have moved all in after I picked up the club draw most likely

Sometimes the nuts just get crushed

-crush3dnuts

crush3dnuts@yahoo.com

pgil

05-18-2006, 03:15 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,103

it looks like hero's line is a TPTK. has a hand, but its vulnerable, and would like to take the pot down now. of course this is without reads. if villain thinks there is any chance hero does this with less than TPTK, then it looks like it might be a decent play. the chance that he might already be ahead coupled with the decent draw is good, and would seem to counter the fact that he has no fold equity.

"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce

Bear Bones

05-18-2006, 03:24 PM

#4 (permalink)

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This doesn't look like AA/KK or I think you would expect a re-raise from Hero preflop. Hero obviously likes his hand though, looks like TT/55 maybe KT depending on hero's range.

I think villain is probably behind though and like a fold or a call better on the turn unless you have a read that indicates you are ahead. I think the check-raise has almost no fold equity at this point. (btw, the numbers for villain don't add up)

Warpe

05-18-2006, 04:06 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Okay, read-wise we don't have any history on Hero but he seems fairly tight.

So let's say we're putting Hero on TPTK/top 2/set. With that read, does shoving the turn make any sense at all? Or do you check/call, check/fold? Pick one as the best play.

pgil

05-18-2006, 04:15 PM

#6 (permalink)

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i think if we put hero on TPTK+, then we have to fold on the turn. the question becomes though, is hero attempting to play back at us since we have a laggy table image, or is hero playing straightforward poker.
as an aside, the hand seems to be played too strong for hero to have a set here too often, especially with position on a known lag.

"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce

WildBobAA

05-18-2006, 04:22 PM

#7 (permalink)

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If I was villian here, I'd have a set or at the very least KT.

Warpe

05-18-2006, 04:38 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pgil

is hero playing straightforward poker.

Yes, he is.

Okay, I have to go earn a living so I'll post the result:

River: Q

($103.35, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $103.35)

Results:
Final pot: $103.35
Hero shows Ad Ah
MP1 shows Kc Qc

Bad beat, but I got him all-in when I was ahead so I'm happy with the hand.

Main reason for posting this: Nobody put me on AA. I think this illustrates nicely that not reraising with AA/AK preflop against a Lagg (or Lagg donk) increases your chances of getting all his money all in the middle. If he'd put me on AA/AK from the get-go, he'd have folded on the turn if not the flop.

Oh, er...and how not to play TPGK.

Thoughts?

samsonite2100

05-18-2006, 04:53 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Yeah, his line sucked. Why in the world would you c/r the turn? Either open shove the turn, hoping that hero's flop reraise was a position play and that you have some fold equity, or c/f. I'd c/f, but then, I'm a pussy.

Also, I like your line Warpe. I think it's good to show that you're capable of playing AA-QQ in an unorthodox way. Maybe take this line ~25% of the time?

jackvance

05-18-2006, 05:39 PM

#10 (permalink)

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jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

Villain pretty much did the right thing too. He has 14 outs to beat AA/AK, so roughly 1/3. You can say you're happy about the hand, but I think it shows the risks of not reraising preflop. Ofcourse you might just as well have gotten paid, but I'm personally not much of a fan of "slowplaying to cloud your hand" preflop. I'd rather overplay some weaker hands to masque my preflop reraising range than downplay my monsters. Just me.

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

Warpe

05-18-2006, 05:54 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

So you'd rather try to see 3 cards and win a $25 pot than see 5 and win a $100 pot? You'll get cracked 1 in 5 times in either case, so I prefer the latter.

Lukie

05-18-2006, 06:02 PM

#12 (permalink)

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I had hero on AK/AA/TT/55/KK.

Here's a cool hand...

POKERSTARS GAME #4937335883: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($2/$4) - 2006/05/14 - 21:35:10 (ET)
Table 'Antigone III' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: RunninBear ($127.45 in chips)
Seat 2: Lukieplaya ($493 in chips)
Seat 3: D_Zoo ($380 in chips)
Seat 4: Blue Maniac ($305.05 in chips)
Seat 5: jillhill ($370.50 in chips)
Seat 6: AllTheWay33 ($400 in chips)
Seat 7: thekingsweed ($438.50 in chips)
Seat 8: luckydawg251 ($313.10 in chips)
Seat 9: hmoney11 ($302.55 in chips)
Blue Maniac: posts small blind $2
jillhill: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Lukieplaya [Ac Ah]
AllTheWay33: folds
thekingsweed: folds
luckydawg251: folds
hmoney11: folds
RunninBear: raises $8 to $12
Lukieplaya: calls $12
D_Zoo: calls $12
Blue Maniac: folds
jillhill: folds
*** FLOP *** [3h Qs 6s]
RunninBear: bets $36
Lukieplaya: calls $36
D_Zoo: raises $64 to $100
RunninBear: raises $15.45 to $115.45 and is all-in
Lukieplaya: folds
D_Zoo: calls $15.45
*** TURN *** [3h Qs 6s] [9h]
*** RIVER *** [3h Qs 6s 9h] [Th]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
RunninBear: shows [Kh Ks] (a pair of Kings)
D_Zoo: shows [6d 6c] (three of a kind, Sixes)
D_Zoo collected $305.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $308.90 | Rake $3
Board [3h Qs 6s 9h Th]
Seat 1: RunninBear showed [Kh Ks] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 2: Lukieplaya folded on the Flop
Seat 3: D_Zoo (button) showed [6d 6c] and won ($305.90) with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 4: Blue Maniac (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: jillhill (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: AllTheWay33 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: thekingsweed folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: luckydawg251 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: hmoney11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Lukie

05-18-2006, 06:10 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Warpe, I agree with you in that occasionally (not often) smooth calling raises with a big pair can be a great play. Just understand though that in the hand in question, villain took his hand way, way too far.

Warpe

05-18-2006, 06:25 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Oh, I realize that. He was donktastic! But it got me thinking about what he would have done if he could've put me on AA/AK. He actually said in the chat that he hadn't put me on AA, as well as apologizing for the beat (I don't know why guys do that - shit happens).

If I posted that HH from my side, if I was getting that action from a better player I probably should be the one folding the turn.

I agree, too, that I wouldn't want to do this most of the time. But he was so bet happy I figured it was a good spot to try to get paid.

jackvance

05-18-2006, 06:38 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

So you'd rather try to see 3 cards and win a $25 pot than see 5 and win a $100 pot? You'll get cracked 1 in 5 times in either case, so I prefer the latter.

With that reasoning, why would you EVER reraise preflop?

Warpe

05-18-2006, 06:53 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

So you'd rather try to see 3 cards and win a $25 pot than see 5 and win a $100 pot? You'll get cracked 1 in 5 times in either case, so I prefer the latter.

With that reasoning, why would you EVER reraise preflop?

You know damn well that it's not the same thing. For starters, against a tightie you want to reraise preflop to inflate the pot, 'cause a call might very well be the last bet you get out of him. Against an aggro, it's not as necessary and giving them rope to hang themselves is sometimes your best strategy.

You want people to put money in the pot when you're ahead, don't you? All I'm saying with this thread is that some will put it in more voluntarily than others, so you should adapt your play to take advantage of that.

jackvance

05-18-2006, 07:44 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

against a tightie you want to reraise preflop to inflate the pot, 'cause a call might very well be the last bet you get out of him. Against an aggro, it's not as necessary and giving them rope to hang themselves is sometimes your best strategy.

Totally agreed. If I had known that's what you meant there, I wouldn't have said what I did.. quite frankly, I use exactly the same reasoning in my play! Against an aggro I'm mixing in a slowplay, against a tightie I'm mixing in a bluff.

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