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Are you going AI with KK regardless?

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BobbySalami

08-15-2005, 12:39 AM Post subject: Are you going AI with KK regardless?

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2005

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Ive read many times here that you get AI with KK PF no matter what....but does this seem like a time to fold?

FullTiltPoker Game #185108283: Table Homestretch - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:25:23 ET - 2005/08/14
Seat 1: BullyBill ($7.60)
Seat 2: lizardking321 ($14.55)
Seat 3: milee ($9.90)
Seat 4: BobbySalami ($9.85)
Seat 5: shib555 ($5.85)
Seat 6: August W 05 ($4.65)
Seat 7: wizard 13 ($4)
Seat 8: Hakka_Man ($7.60)
Seat 9: westerlund_w ($9.75)
BobbySalami posts the small blind of $0.05
shib555 has 5 seconds left to act
shib555 stands up
shib555 has timed out
August W 05 posts the big blind of $0.10
wizard 13 posts $0.10
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BobbySalami [Kc Kh]
wizard 13 checks
Hakka_Man calls $0.10
westerlund_w raises to $0.40
BullyBill folds
lizardking321 folds
milee folds
BobbySalami raises to $1.20
August W 05 folds
renegade rott sits down
wizard 13 raises to $4, and is all in
renegade rott adds $4
Hakka_Man folds
westerlund_w raises to $9.75, and is all in
BobbySalami ???

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TripsChaos

08-15-2005, 01:00 AM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 86

i would say that if you are a room of generally weak players, there are generally only 4 hands that you would reraise a preflop raise, and they are pretty obvious:

AA, KK, QQ, AK

Better players will test you out with other hands, getting creative, but i would def call here, mostly b/c the stakes are so small.

I folded KK once at the borgata preflop b/c i let a "table" friendship get in the way - stupidest thing I have ever done.

Call all day.

Laeelin

08-15-2005, 01:02 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,137

I'm willing to fold KK preflop to enough strength...

But if I have much in the pot already it's worth the call even if i'm almost sure they have AA

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A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

BobbySalami

08-15-2005, 01:22 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Laeelin

I'm willing to fold KK preflop to enough strength...

But if I have much in the pot already it's worth the call even if i'm almost sure they have AA

Do you think this was enough strength to throw KK in the muck?

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Laeelin

08-15-2005, 01:29 AM

#5 (permalink)

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I dont know with just one hand... Need to know the players more =(

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

BobbySalami

08-15-2005, 02:02 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Laeelin

I dont know with just one hand... Need to know the players more =(

no reads.....5th hand at the table

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ensign_lee

08-15-2005, 02:09 AM

#7 (permalink)

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no reads; easy call.

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BobbySalami

08-15-2005, 02:14 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign_lee

no reads; easy call.

so the only way that you would lay down KK PF is, say a know uber-rock suddenly coming to life AI?...otherwise AI everytime?

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baudib

08-15-2005, 03:03 AM

#9 (permalink)

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people go all-in at small stakes with anything. pocket 2s...I had made a huge reraise over the top of two raisers with AA, and someone with AJ comes over the top and puts me all in. Of course AJ won....

Playing big pots at small stakes.

BobbySalami

08-15-2005, 03:09 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by baudib

Funny you mention AJ...thats what the shortstack had...but my fears were answered...I had a feeling he had AA, but couldnt lay down KK....mostly cause I am having a bad run with KK and am a bit too passive always fearing the worst

so this call is g00t even with all the suggestions that there is an AA out there?

BobbySalami calls $8.55
westerlund_w shows [Ah Ac]
BobbySalami shows [Kc Kh]
wizard 13 shows [As Jh]
*** FLOP *** [Th 8h 6d]
*** TURN *** [Th 8h 6d] [Jd]
*** RIVER *** [Th 8h 6d Jd] [2h]
Hakka_Man: ouch
westerlund_w shows a pair of Aces
BobbySalami shows a pair of Kings
westerlund_w wins the side pot ($10.95) with a pair of Aces
wizard 13 shows a pair of Jacks
westerlund_w wins the main pot ($11.60) with a pair of Aces
wizard 13 is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $23.70 Main pot $12.20. Side pot $11.50. | Rake $1.15
Board: [Th 8h 6d Jd 2h]
Seat 1: BullyBill didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: lizardking321 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: milee (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: BobbySalami (small blind) showed [Kc Kh] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 5: shib555 is sitting out
Seat 6: August W 05 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: wizard 13 showed [As Jh] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 8: Hakka_Man folded before the Flop
Seat 9: westerlund_w showed [Ah Ac] and won ($22.55) with a pair of Aces

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DaNutsInYoEye

08-15-2005, 03:24 AM

#11 (permalink)

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At a full table and you're dealt KK, the chances of someone having AA are just a hair better than 4%.

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TopThis

08-15-2005, 04:17 AM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbySalami

so the only way that you would lay down KK PF is, say a know uber-rock suddenly coming to life AI?...otherwise AI everytime?

At low stakes yes. Like others have said those types of players are too unpredictable to muck KK pf.

I've only mucked KK once PF. 2/5 NL at the taj

lag utg raises to $25, he has been sort of a dick. trying to bully the table and saying impolite things occasionally. (none of that bothers me)
MP player ive played with before I can tell is just waiting for a spot to bust utg and reraises all in for about $350
I'm next to act with KK. A few thoughts cross my mind. Yes he wants to bust the lag but I don't think he's on tilt to where he'll do something like that without the goods. The goods being KK or AA and since I have KK I doubt he does also so I put him on AA. I also want the UTG to call him, and if I call there is no way utg is calling. So I muck.
utg mucks also and MP tables AA.

that was a unique situation I guess, all the other times I've had KK I haven't laid it down PF.

DimitriT

08-15-2005, 01:37 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Posts: 614

No this is not a time to fold. I am less concerned with all-in moves here than someone raising strongly. The reason is that an all-in doesn't want action. In this situation your opponent should want you in the hand (at a price) if he held AA.

Here's the situation where you MAY consider folding: KK as the SB, UTG raises 4x, MP1 (tight plr) reraises to 12x. Even here MP1 could be holding QQ but the most likely hand there IMO is AA.

deathroller

08-15-2005, 02:08 PM

#14 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 6

I was playing some 20NL today and re-raised someones PFR with cowboys. He re-re-raised me and I almost folded because I was pretty sure he had rockets. However, I didn't and it turned out he had pocket 9s. I learned my lesson. At these limits I'll push with KK every single time.

Bmxicle

08-15-2005, 03:58 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Location: Vancouver

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never fold kk preflop at 10nl. I folded it once when two rocks that raised like 1% of the time went allin ahead of me. They both had AA.

baudib

08-15-2005, 06:39 PM

#16 (permalink)

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I have never folded KK at low buy-ins. I have folded KK on the flop with no A at a $50 buy-in when the flop-raisers actions screamed a made set on a couple of occasions.

The only time I would go AI with AA at a low-stakes table like that is if there is a raise, reraise and multiple callers ahead of me. ie a situation where I want to pare the field down and would be happy just collecting the money already on the table.

You made the right call and the guy with AJ hit one of his three outs. What can you do? You'll suffer worse beats than that.

I don't mean this to sound obnoxious, but I guess it is: someone who isn't willing to bet $10 on KK in a cash game probably shouldn't play for real money.

Playing big pots at small stakes.

EricE

08-15-2005, 06:48 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 894

I call AIs with KK every time. The only way I would lay down is if someone somehow showed me they had AA.

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

BobbySalami

08-15-2005, 08:35 PM

#18 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2005

Location: Limbo

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Okay, thanks 4 all the replies, I think the answer is a resounding yes, unless you have very very strong reads that they have AA....

I just felt that with a raise UTG, a reraise by me, a rereraise from the shortstack, and a rerereraise from the initial raiser that it felt like a time to fold.....

Just sucks this was one of those times.......thanks again.

If you wanna turn your daddy parts ORANGE eat some cheetos and watch some porn!

Currently sucking at life!

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