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Fnord
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01-14-2008, 09:36 AM
Post subject: Yet another very live poker hand
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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$5/$3 $300 max in Cali
UTG is an old man who just sat down. Saw him at the limit tables earlier and he seems kinda new to NLHE. He's not exactly clear that his 2 stacks of $2 chips (over the $300 they colored up for him) don't play. He's got around $350 in chips due to a spot where I called down $20 twice with TPNK vs his turned flush (limped pre-flop, no flop action.)
UTG+1 is a pretty chatty, awareish, street smart live player. Probably plays a tad loosish and passivish compared to his online counter-parts. He has well over $600.
I've just donked someone over with a couple kinda loose flop + turn calls, then provoked an even worse river call to get around $525 in chips.
We're 7 handed. The guys behind me aren't terribly loose maybe even tightish and straight forward. There is one soft spot in the blinds.
Anyway, now onto the actual hold'em part.
UTG calls.
UTG+1 raises to $25, I'm not too sure of his standards here but figure like 88+, AJ+, Suited Broadways.
I tank a bit with :Qc: :Qd: and announce a call.
Players behind me fold.
Blinds take the hint and fold.
3 to the frop, just over $75 in the pot.
:Jd:  
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, I bet $50 intending to fold to most raises, UTG (old man) quickly calls, UTG+1 folds.
$175 in the pot
Turn is an air-ball
UTG checks, I bet an even stack of $100, UTG calls.
$375 in the pot, around $175 behind
River is a brick
UTG checks and I bet another $100 stack...
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Standard? :P
I've never played live btw.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Standard? :P
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When was the last time you TAniacs flat-called Queens?
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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why not just shove river?
clubs are folding anyway and any J is commited
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Ahhh, that's the other thing.
Betting less than $100 here is just giving up way too much balance.
Shoving for his entire stack has psychology to it. He might not want to or be able to re-buy. So I'm not just making a bet as we see it, I'm fucking with his ability to enjoy losing his money at a rate he's comfortable with. Shoving Ax/pp with $75 is kinda fun. Then again, this guy sucks so hard, it's kind of a shame to not get all of the money into the middle in a "fuck it, I'm showing down my fucking hand" heat of the moment call I've learned to just love. Once we get that far in thinking, I kinda regretted not betting more on the flop + turn.
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BrassPoker
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XTR1000
why not just shove river?
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I agree that the only logical bet would be your remaining $175. There's $375 in the post so a bet of $175 isn't even half the pot.
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Jay67s
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 241
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In a live game there is something about putting someone "ALL IN". I think $100 has a much better than 2x chance to get called than does $175. Plus leaving him a little money, maybe he will rebuy instead of just saying the hell with it and leaving.
Also, flat calling with big Pocket Pairs Pre flop and calling all the way down to river is the new "in" thing @ 100nl on-line. (It drives me nuts)
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay67s
Also, flat calling with big Pocket Pairs Pre flop and calling all the way down to river is the new "in" thing @ 100nl on-line. (It drives me nuts)
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Pretty reasonable adjustment when dealing with people who raise pre and bet/fold every street.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Probably played perfectly. Busting people live seems to be something you kinda don't wanna do.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
Busting people live seems to be something you kinda don't wanna do.
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If he was stuck, already donked off half a buy, drunk or any number of other situations I expect vastly different all-in standards. Just sat down and up a bit with no re-buy in clear sight is someone who's more likely to get cold feet after we've ordered catering.
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Standard? :P
I've never played live btw.
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Really? It's more entertaining, but less profitable (slower, 1 table)
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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This post has a nice perspective on table dynamics, especially in the short term. I can definately advocate keeping the weakest player slightly alive, so that he can have a chance at sucking out the hard money and making it easier for you to obtain. At the same time it keeps the table slightly lighter and looser in the meantime.
An interesting question might be, would you do the same thing if you planned on playing live for 5 straight days at 12+ hours a pop?
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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how long is your typical live session?
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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hecklerjoe
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5
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i love live games. i'm definitely a better player live. for some reason, my mentals/analyticals are not all there for online.
your hand is a typical hand we see all too often live. got to love all the tourist that come play
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
stuff
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I don't see it as mercy, I just don't think he's got a $175 call in him but might have a $100 call.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Looks good.
I prefer a re-popping preflop.
Nice sized bet on flop.
Bigger bet on turn.
Shove river.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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yuenjai
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 43
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if villain is fairly loose, i dont mind raising him pf. hes calling the whole way i doubt he has a J. maybe a smaller pair. shoving the river seems like a good idea in this spot. it adds the possibility of him calling thinking you missed a draw. the 100 is clearly a value bet so im not sure if hes gonna call with a smaller pair.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Against a stronger player, the river is a clear shove. Anyway, he tanked and folded. Probably had a Jack.
Pre-flop: If I 3-ball here I put a lot of pressure on the raiser's hand and probably blow all the soft money out of the pot. Certainly +EV, although playing a big pot with a reasonable player who figures to have a reasonable hand for nearly 2 buy-ins isn't all that exciting as I think if all the money goes in without a flopped Queen I'm getting the worst of it. Not even sure if he makes the pre-flop auto-call. Just calling will certainly get UTG in and might also get the softie from the blinds. From there, use position to figure out where I'm at.
Flop: Combination probe/value bet. Want to see where I'm at and I would make this bet with a lot of hands.
Turn: Valuetown.
River: Valuetown.
In retrospect, I like $60, $120, shove a lot better. Meh.
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