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This is why i hate A A.

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Cocco_Bill

11-30-2004, 07:02 AM Post subject: This is why i hate A A.

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Sweden

Posts: 1,254

I didn't expect him to go along with my preflop raise with QTo. Then he calls a 20 X BB raise on the flop with a pair of tens and hits 2 pair on the turn. Obviosly when he reraised me after the turn I suspected I was beat, but most of the money was in at that point...
Anyone see any obvious mistakes?

Game # 021,029,759 - Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 0.25/0.50 - Table "Eskilstuna"
Game ended Tuesday 2004-Nov-30 7:45:33 AM GMT

Players:
Chryssalid (EUR 22.50 in seat 2)
sunlight (EUR 10.25 in seat 3)
powerplay (EUR 77.75 in seat 4)
Cocco_Bill (EUR 35.00 in seat 5)
MrWestin (EUR 115.25 in seat 6)
PhobosAK (EUR 50.50 in seat 7)
McRogn (EUR 43.00 in seat 8)

Dealer: sunlight
Small Blind: powerplay (0.25)
Big Blind: Cocco_Bill (0.50)

Cocco_Bill was dealt: Ah - Ac

MrWestin Raise (1.00)
PhobosAK Call (1.00)
McRogn Fold
Chryssalid Call (1.00)
sunlight Fold
powerplay Fold
Cocco_Bill Raise (3.00)
MrWestin Call (2.50)
PhobosAK Call (2.50)
Chryssalid Fold

Flop 6c - Tc - 3s

Cocco_Bill Bet (10.00)
MrWestin Fold
PhobosAK Call (10.00)

Turn 6c - Tc - 3s - Qh

Cocco_Bill Bet (10.00)
PhobosAK Raise (21.00)
Cocco_Bill Call (11.00)

River 6c - Tc - 3s - Qh - 7d

Cocco_Bill Check
PhobosAK Bet (0.50)
Cocco_Bill All-In (0.50)

PhobosAK shows: Qd - Ts (two pairs, queens and tens)
Cocco_Bill shows: Ah - Ac (a pair of aces)

PhobosAK wins: EUR 72.25 (with two pairs, queens and tens)
Rake: EUR 2.50

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TylerK

11-30-2004, 07:06 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

Nah, I'm not really good with the math at this time of night, but the pot looks big enough that you probably had to call.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

Cocco_Bill

11-30-2004, 07:53 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Sweden

Posts: 1,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerK

Nah, I'm not really good with the math at this time of night, but the pot looks big enough that you probably had to call.

What maths? What should I calculate?

whileone

11-30-2004, 11:37 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 306

on the turn after the reraise, it costs you 11 to try to win 60. if you can put a number on how likely it is you are beat... say 70% then it's actualy in your favor to call if the payoff is better than the likelyhood you are beat. for example, say you have a 30% chance of winning. At a low cost of 18% (11/60) of the pot you can call, so it's probably worth it to call.

the tricky is getting the number that is how likely it is that you are beat. you have to take into account all of this hand's history as well as what you know about the player. if they only play good hands. It's unlikely they called with a QT. if they bluff a lot, you may actualy have them beat.

i think TylerK meant something like this.

TylerK

11-30-2004, 12:52 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

Yeah, exactly what whileone said. I just couldn't be bothered to figure out how much was in the pot when I read your message, but it looked like enough to be laying you reasonable odds.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

TDM100

12-01-2004, 11:59 AM Post subject: Poker GODS bestowed upon you! Then HATE their offering?

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 40

Tuff beat bud,,we all been there before!
What you do is take a situation like this and learn from it.
You already paid the tuition.
Tell me Bill, those dang AA’s aint worth more than 8% of your stack pre-flop?
That tells me you’re gun shy!
You’ve paid tuition before huh?

Bill I swear to GAWD, you can’t PAY the Poker GODS enough to grant you many more situations like the one you played here!
For all intensive purposes you are playin from the short stack!
You third from the bottom!
You have the privilege and honor to act last in this Pre-FLOP!
You’ve just been blessed with a pairs of bullets.
Late position AA, goodness gracious, YAHOO!
The chip leader, in early position, just raised!
YOU GOT HIM BEAT!
& YOU WANT HIS BIG STACK!
THAT’S THE GUY YOU WANT HEADS UP RIGHT NOW!
Yes sir!
Think of it this way, you wanna go heads up with him with a pair of 2’s you being in early, he being in late position?
How about with 8’s?
Cause that’s about the way you played it.

Bill, I swear to gawd, it’s not uncommon for a skilled poker player, first to act pre-Flop, holding AA’s to make a sizable bet, you know why?
Will that answer change if that same said player was in Late position, last to act?

There were few things you knew going into that flop and there should have been a whole lot more.
You're holding AA’s, backing that up with just a mere 8% of your stack and allowing 2 other players, one being the chip leader, playing just about anything they wish and get to view the flop on the cheap!
Worse, in this scenario, you’re FIRST to act after the flop!

What’s a couple of chips to the leader here to see a flop?
10% of your stack is 3.50, that same 3.50 is only 3% to him!
At that amount he doesn’t have to play AA’s.
The best hand in Texas Hold’em!
Agree?
But yet those same AA’s which you have now, weren’t worth anywhere near 10%!
You allowed the CHIP LEADER to play against them for less than 3% of his stack!
Follow?
He is the one with most of the money, and you givin him a discount to see the flop!
Talk about class warfare!
Playin anything he wishes!
Hell, 7 2 off suit at that price!

When it was all said and done, it cost you a 100% for holding those AA’s beaten by a Q T off suit!
Right now you think PhobosAK (3rd in chip count beginning of this hand) played reckless correct?
He thought you had 22’s or 88’s!
If that from the Blind!
Agree?
Imagine if he saw you challenging the Chip Leader pre-Flop, would he have stayed in with a QT off suit?

Take your first two bets here 3+10=13
Add another, 13+10=23, 2/3 of your chips before you learned anything more about that hand since it was dealt!
What I mean by “Learned” is, you really had no idea what he was holding until 2/3 of your chips was sucked out.
Holding the best hand in hold’em, in the late position!
You have ALL the authority you are ever going to have in this game pre-Flop to assist you in distinguishing what that guy has in his hand!
It doesn’t get much better!
That’s the luxury of holding the best hand in Texas Hold’em!
It’s primo when you’re the last to act!
The odds are truly in your favor.
You have to take those odds, POKER CAPITAL as it were, and try to determine what you going to be playing against before anybody else sees one more damn card!
You agree?

Who played reckless?

LeFou

12-01-2004, 12:51 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Who is this guy? I like him...

astrodon

12-01-2004, 03:11 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Eastern Oregon

Posts: 133

I just heard Lederer say this the other night and is what I was thinking about your situation:

NO good act will go unpunished...

The AA though powerfull preflop are just two cards. If you had sixes and your nemisis had the same over pair even AK it's essentially a coinflip (54 46). With QTo you had him 4:1 and guess what you played it as a coin flip... Though this guy was either crazy or balzy, it was plain by his 10.00 (20BB) that he did not respect your (6BB) 3.00 bet. But even after the flop you are 4:1 favorite. Even though I would be thinking set of T's at that point. However you EV is roughly +$66.70 for the cost of a call. 66.70 = (.8*72.75) - (.2*-44.50) - But he sucked out on you, S**T happens. The only thing may have been to re-raise if you really believed you had the nuts; after all you made a 6BB preflop he then would have to put you on Q's even though he knows for certainty where two allready are. Thus putting the preasure on him and increasing you EV at the same time.

You did the right thing and got punished for it - for now.

Education is what is left when you have forgotten everything you learned in school

AllinLife

12-03-2004, 06:26 PM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2004

Posts: 530

I love AA because it accounts for nearly half of my total winnings.

"Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
- Gus Hansen

Chicago_Kid

12-20-2004, 07:05 PM Post subject: Re: Poker GODS bestowed upon you! Then HATE their offering?

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: People let me tell you about my best friends...

Posts: 1,132

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDM100

He is the one with most of the money, and you givin him a discount to see the flop!

It's that classic situation, when you know you are ahead (AA preflop, or baby trips on flop), and you want to pump it but keep someone in to pay you off. Sometimes you don't get enough people out and you get creamed, and sometimes you scare them all out. If I don't know the table, I usually end up scaring them all out and complaining to myself about a small pot. However, it beats the hell outta losing it all!

Your specific situation just sucks...not sure how you get away from this on the turn. I probably would have put him on AQ or a flush draw or something.

I thought your re-raise was about right, as you want to keep one guy--a loose small pair, two overcards, or a big pair that you're gonna to beat 75+% of the time.

"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"

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