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cardsman1992

04-06-2007, 12:11 AM Post subject: When playing deep....

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397

Posts: 1,065

First part of NLHE T&P talks about sizing your bets to make it easy to get the stack in when you hit big. Here is a hand where I think I mucked that up pretty badly. What size should my raise be to get the stacks in? I'll step further after some discussion. It's not often I am involved with a monster hand against another similarly deep stack and I felt lost. I know I can't push. I had scared him off a hand earlier at the same table with JJ that hit a set on an AJxx board. He check/called flop, check raised turn, and when I pushed over his check raise he folded.

Reads: 1500 hands on villain, he is 30/7.5/3.5. Breakeven player. We have mixed it up from time to time and I frankly own him, up about 3 buyins on him over those 1500 hands.

Off topic, is anyone frisky enough to reraise this preflop? I considered popping to ~$18 for a moment....

Also assume that neither of the other stacks is check raising....

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.50/$1 Blinds
8 Players
LegoPoker HH Converter

Stack Sizes
SB: $107.90
BB: $57.80
UTG: $89.80
UTG+1: $83.10
MP1: $98.40
MP2: $173.05
CO: $91.30
Hero (BTN): $180.40

Preflop: 5

($1.50, 8 Players)
UTG raises to $3, UTG+1 calls $3, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $3, CO folds, Hero calls $3, 2 folds

Flop: 6

($15, 4 Players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets $10, Hero raises to ????????

I put him on this range when considering. Too broad or too narrow?

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

147,510 games 0.005 secs 29,502,000 games/sec

Board: 6h 4h 3d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 88.050% 86.17% 01.88% 127110 2772.50 { 7d5d }
Hand 1: 11.950% 10.07% 01.88% 14855 2772.50 { KK+, 88-22, A2s+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T8s+, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, 87o, 76o, 65o, 54o }

Operation Grind For Education:

Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR

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Vi-Zer0Skill

04-06-2007, 02:35 AM

#2 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
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definitely. It looks like he has a set. I think you can get it AI on the flop if that is what he has. If he has a draw to a hand bigger than your you also got to make him pay to see it. I would reraise him ~$25 more on the flop.

cardsman1992

04-06-2007, 04:53 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397

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Are you saying you definitely reraise preflop? Definitely what?

There was no question I wanted all in on the flop, but I was debating the best bet to entice a push.....

$35 isn't bad.

Any other takers?

Operation Grind For Education:

Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR

Vi-Zer0Skill

04-06-2007, 05:00 AM

#4 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
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I misread part of your post. I don't mind a reraise preflop from time to time (the chip sandwich play is def. one of my favorites), but i would generally call preflop and hope to hit a strong hand on the flop or be done with it.

I think most players will continue to raise or shove with a set on this flop. Just make the raise big enough so that if he has a set a raise by him will most likely be AI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

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zook

04-06-2007, 06:54 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,676

I call pre-flop and raise flop to $40ish. Your hand is great, but vulnerable to flush draws and sets, so play it as fast as possible, esp. multiway.

The range you entered is too broad b/c you included suited hands that aren't just hearts. But it would take a long time to enter all the heart/heart hands

Otherwise it looks good, except why are AA/KK in there?

Miffed22001

04-06-2007, 10:10 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

this is really tough for maximisation.

If this wasnt such a nitty game id open push here, we'll get the guys stack if he has a multidraw or a set IMO.
But, we want to try and keep some of the money behind in the pot too.
If we think he has a set then i think calling isnt horrible considering board pairs something like 20%? time on turn, so we can get him all in on most turns oop anyway.
Saying that, i think its important to take this guys stack and forget about those behind because as everyone notes your hand is ultra strong but a but vulnerable.

I like raising to $35 and calling a push or pushing any turn regardless of it being a heart given our read he has a strong hand.

cardsman1992

04-06-2007, 01:50 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

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Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397

Posts: 1,065

Z--I left in AA/KK because a LOT of people can't lay'em down.....and I have seen him stack off with overpairs before.

I didn't know that Stove didn't assume the suited hands were of the draw suit. Guess I should have figured that. So you manually type in 8h7h, 7h6h, etc....huh? That would have sucked....

Truthfully then I was more like 2:1 against his range I figure, taking out those other hands.

So, back to the hand. I raised too small. I raised to $30. I got lucky. He pushed.

Operation Grind For Education:

Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR

Threads13

04-06-2007, 05:36 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2007

Posts: 18

I like raising to about $50. This makes the pot $115 on the turn if he calls and then you can push him in for the rest on the turn.

Numbr2intheWorld

04-06-2007, 06:07 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Numbr2intheWorld will become famous soon enough

I kinda like the idea of reraising pre, but it's not necessary. I just raise to 40, you aren't getting anything more out of the guys who checked by making it 30 or 35.

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piratepeaty

04-07-2007, 09:05 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 121

Going for overcalls is pretty bad in this spot so a raise is in order. So many turn cards are going to be difficult to play, I'm going to assume (hope) he has a big hand and wants to get it in. Raise to 35-$45 here. It's an overraise but it makes the hand so much easier to play.

zook

04-09-2007, 06:39 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

Z--I left in AA/KK because a LOT of people can't lay'em down.....and I have seen him stack off with overpairs before.

Yeah, but he cold-called pre-flop behind another cold-caller...

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