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When not to c-bet

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Fnord

02-20-2006, 06:40 AM Post subject: When not to c-bet

#1 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

I've taken down 2 of the last 3 pots I've entered via c-bets and in the odd one I dumped to a bad board with a bet + call to me.

CO plays lots of hands and is sitting on a big stack. He might be a pretty good post-flop player, but this is my first orbit and my read is developing.

BB is a pretty bad loose/passive and one of the reasons I like my seat/table. I've seen him dump hands on the flop before, so his calling standard requires at least a pretty good piece of the flop.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button ($26.45)
SB ($36)
BB ($94.55)
UTG ($93.25)
Fnord ($105.35)
MP1 ($59.75)
MP2 ($29.70)
MP3 ($98.50)
CO ($340.75)

Preflop: Fnord is UTG+1 with J

, J

.
1 fold, Fnord raises to $3, 3 folds, CO calls $3, 2 folds, BB calls $2.

Flop: ($9.50) T

, 3

, Q

(3 players)
BB checks, Fnord checks, CO bets $6, BB calls $6, Fnord folds...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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rebuyman

02-20-2006, 08:33 AM

#2 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 70

what's your name on stars cause i 8 table NL100 full ring sometimes.

Fnord

02-20-2006, 09:09 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rebuyman

what's your name on stars cause i 8 table NL100 full ring sometimes.

If you're who I think you are, going 3 orbits without raising isn't going to get you much action from me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Lukie

02-20-2006, 09:14 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Location: back with a vengeance

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Clickity clank clickity clank
The money goes into my piggy bank...

POKERSTARS GAME #4036131175: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/02/20 - 04:42:32 (ET)
Table 'Euanthe' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: DMcGrory ($118.70 in chips)
Seat 2: Lukieplaya ($122.75 in chips)
Seat 3: easy12 ($40 in chips)
Seat 4: rebuyman ($114.40 in chips)
Seat 5: winwonsoon ($84.25 in chips)
Seat 6: CVBCool1 ($81.35 in chips)
Seat 8: wiwrobs ($165.15 in chips)
Seat 9: tabner ($39.20 in chips)
Lukieplaya: posts small blind $0.50
easy12: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Lukieplaya [Qs Ks]
rebuyman: raises $3 to $4
winwonsoon: calls $4
CVBCool1: folds
wiwrobs: folds
tabner: folds
DMcGrory: folds
Lukieplaya: calls $3.50
easy12: folds
*** FLOP *** [5h Qc Kc]
Lukieplaya: checks
rebuyman: checks
winwonsoon: checks
*** TURN *** [5h Qc Kc] [3c]
Lukieplaya: bets $10
rebuyman: calls $10
winwonsoon: calls $10
*** RIVER *** [5h Qc Kc 3c] [4h]
Lukieplaya: checks
rebuyman: bets $10
winwonsoon said, "gb, rebuyman, folding p jacks"
winwonsoon: folds
Lukieplaya: calls $10
*** SHOW DOWN ***
rebuyman: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)
Lukieplaya: shows [Qs Ks] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
Lukieplaya collected $60 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $63 | Rake $3
Board [5h Qc Kc 3c 4h]
Seat 1: DMcGrory (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Lukieplaya (small blind) showed [Qs Ks] and won ($60) with two pair, Kings and Queens
Seat 3: easy12 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: rebuyman showed [As Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 5: winwonsoon folded on the River
Seat 6: CVBCool1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: wiwrobs folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: tabner folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Lukie

02-20-2006, 09:16 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Fnord.. I usually throw out a bet here, but I do see your pov if you have been c-betting often and you are now looking at a QTx 2-tone board. I still probably throw out a bet though without looking to go any deeper if that bet doesn't win the pot.

bdawg56kg

02-20-2006, 09:59 AM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

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Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

Despite your image and/or previous action, I would probably bet this flop about $7-8. Your hand is most likely good here. Also, if the CO calls, you can probably be done with the hand, but you have position on the bad player, so I'm not going to just surrender that here. With AK I can see check/folding moreso than with JJ. Also given your lag image and what not, I am raising 4xBB at least preflop. Is 3xBB your standard?

Lukie, for KQs hand, I probably lead river for something like 1/3 - 1/2 pot. Given the flop and turn action, it's pretty unlikely anyone has a flush. You would have heard from a set by now, so I think a value bet is in order here.

Fnord

02-20-2006, 10:17 AM

#7 (permalink)

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KQs no g00t when the 8-tabling nit raises from UTG. Fail that, jam the river, you're good there a lot. Really obvious blocking bet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

02-20-2006, 10:28 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

With AK I can see check/folding moreso than with JJ. Also given your lag image and what not, I am raising 4xBB at least preflop. Is 3xBB your standard?

JJ will almost never improve here and will sometimes improve to a second best. Also, CO may be capable of putting pressure on my hand just by calling my c-bet that I'd rather avoid.

Finally, I like a 3+limpers opener when raising 10%+ because it does what I need it to do while giving me more room to play post-flop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Lukie

02-20-2006, 09:04 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

KQs no g00t when the 8-tabling nit raises from UTG. Fail that, jam the river, you're good there a lot. Really obvious blocking bet.

Lol, I agree with you 100% here. In fact when I was playing, I did so realizing that his entire range here might be dominating me and i was out of position to boot. Maybe a bit of a loose preflop call, but I was playing like 14/7 split in that game so it must have been a surprise. That said, it was played strictly for 2p, flush (basically nut flush as I don't think he's raising AJs UTG there), and straight possiblities.

I also had visions of leading strong into him on a raggish/safe board, effectively putting him into a tough spot between myself and the first caller. I would have basically ignored TPGK here...

Lukie

02-20-2006, 09:08 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Also, the hand I posted was simply due to the embarrassing, comical fit thrown by villain after the hand. He gave quite the poker lesson to the entire table after bitching for 15 minutes about how his aces got cracked...

LeFou

02-20-2006, 10:03 PM

#11 (permalink)

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i love reading that stuff; stick it in here

Lukie

02-20-2006, 10:30 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LeFou

i love reading that stuff; stick it in here

Sorry for hijacking your thread Fnord.

Fnord

02-20-2006, 10:57 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Rebuyman, you have some serious meta-game issues. Fishes with almost no hope of profit play poker for fun. Pretend to have fun and gamble with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Sorry for hijacking your thread Fnord.

It's not like I ever hijack a thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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When not to c-bet

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