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Pants_101
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06-14-2007, 06:31 PM
Post subject: Whats my play on the flop? ($25nl)
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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Villain is 36/16 over 120 hands. I figure my hand might well be best pf so I call from the BB. Is this ok or should I raise or just fold? When I hit the flop how do I set about extracting from his weaker hands or finding out I'm in trouble? Bet out? c/r? c/c? What would your plan for later streets be? I'm trying to work on my basics!
Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $4.65
UTG+1: $29.80
CO: $3.40
Button: $16.38
SB: $4.75
Hero: $26.10
Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with A  J 
3 folds, Button raises to $1, SB folds, Hero calls.
Flop: T  J 7 ($2.1, 2 players)
Hero ???
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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Trashcona
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 147
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If villain has been rasing from the button regularly, I'd seriously consider raising preflop(granted defending your blinds at this level isn't the most important thing). Either way, I donk the flop for my usual sized bet continue to bet for value on later streets.
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pokerroomace
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 783
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checkraise. checkcall. or bet
i prefer bet, then cr
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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yes, depending on if the button has been raising most of the time, I re-raise. Then regardless of flop, you have great credibility on your c-bet.
You need to bet this flop as played, there is a draw. I usually only c/r on dry flops or if villain is super aggro.
now if you missed you still bet, and if he just calls fire a second bullet on the turn. Lots of time the button will call a cbet and if you check the turn he will fire back at you. But just because he calls doesn't mean he has hit, often he's trying to steal on the turn.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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c/r if he cbets a lot
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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Everyone c-bets all the time! When a pf raiser doesn't bet the flop I put a big red ! on my calender 
So I could bet out - if he missed he will probably fold. If he's frisky he might bluff raise which would be awkward. He might float and see what I do on the turn, presumably folding to my second value bet. If he has an overpair he'll probably raise or call and raise turn.
If I check raise I win another bet if he has nothing and wouldn't float.
If I check call I might win 2 bets by c/r on the turn or flush might come and kill action or he might draw out. But I don't know if I'm beaten either. But I'm probably ahead. Still no one likes the check call? I guess if I want to be aggressive on the flop with sets I should be with other hands too.
Anyway enough rambling, tell me if I'm wrong about any of this else cheers guys
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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c/r with turn with TPTK seems very meh to me. That's a big pot you're going to be playing with just a pair of jacks.
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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Ok but the c/r on the flop with tptk is ok because people so often c-bet missed hands?
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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Jimmy Mac
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Drinking your milkshake.
Posts: 950
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Pre-flop raiser is loose and only has 60BB, so I'm happy getting it all in on this flop. I just CR the flop and stick the rest in on the turn.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pants_101
Ok but the c/r on the flop with tptk is ok because people so often c-bet missed hands?
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Yes, we should give them the chance to cbet here. It might be my limit background talking but if I flop a piece I generally go for the c/r instead of the lead out. Might be something I should look into.
I c/r and call a push with TPTK 60bb deep
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larsmars
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 101
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I usually just c/r all in.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by larsmars
I usually just c/r all in.
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thats just a bit of overkill.
lead out or c/r flop, and look to get it all in if he has something.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac
Pre-flop raiser is loose and only has 60BB, so I'm happy getting it all in on this flop. I just CR the flop and stick the rest in on the turn.
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I agree I would be happy to get it all in too. However this assumes villain cooperates with me. I guess my purpose is not to win the pot every time it's to win as much money as I can and lose as little as I can. If he doesn't have top pair or a draw then the c/r will win his c-bet but he'll fold to my strength winning me a small amount. However if he has a draw or a hand like KJ then the c/r may scare him off again winning me a small bet. If on the other hand I bet out he might call this and call another bet on the turn. He may even call the river with KJ. (All this assumes he doesn't improve). However if his hand has missed he probably won't call my flop bet and I win very little. So the question is how often does he have nothing and how often does he have a hand he will continue with if I don't blow him away. Sadly I don't have any clue how to assign percentages and calculate the equity so I don't know if over a large sample betting out or check raising wins me more. And I'm not considering the dangers of allowing him to continue in the hand in position, drawing out and winning bets from me or already being ahead. I'm also not considering that he might be bad and call a c/r when he shouldn't or the possibility of check calling his missed c-bet and calling his second barrel if he's aggressive and puts me on the flush draw. Damn poker seems complicated
Does any of what I'm saying make sense? Anyone got any input? It's great that people take time to give me advice but I really need to understand why one line is theoretically superior to another if I can 
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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pants run the math on the situation instead of just thinking about it.
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
pants run the math on the situation instead of just thinking about it.
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Damn you're right but I need help running the maths, I've never done any analysis like this and don't really know how to proceed... My hope is that some of us who want to try to understand the theory get together on here and have a go!
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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