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Shady

01-12-2005, 06:59 PM Post subject: What have I done?!

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 58

First time posting here but I had a beat today that I just couldn't believe and needed some possible reassurance that I made the right move. Considering the place I come to for my info is here I figured I'd see what you all thought.

I was in a .25/.50 NL game, I was on the BB in a 10 person game.
Cards Come

to me
Betting goes around UTG raises 1XBB and MP6 calls and I complete.
Flop drops:

So with my TPTK I'm thinkin that UTG has something like QJ QT judging by his play being slightly tight and the seemingly small pre-flop raise. MP6 I'm not concerned to much about since I think he's on TILT from this last hand he blew and was just about broke.
I throw a check bet in of 2XBB
everyone calls
turn:

so now I'm a little worried and throw another check raise in figuring UTG has top pair now 2XBB
UTG Calls to my surprise and MP6 goes all in for about 10XBB
Judging by MP6 's playing that I've seen I'm thinkin he has 7 or the 9 and is just about fed up and wants the pot. I call and so does UTG
river:

well now I'm very scared I check to UTG and he makes a bet to put me all-in. I fold knowing he easily has me beat and wondering why I took this so far besides my damn ego.
Cards turn over
UTG has 88poket pair never saw MP6's cards he mucked...DAMN I should have called

i keep telling I made the right decision but it stings...would doubled me up instead I lost 1/4 of my stack

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bspahn

01-12-2005, 07:20 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 851

I'd bet the pot or at least 2/3 - 3/4 of the pot on the flop, once the overs come i'd check/fold. anybody else ?

with that huge of a bet and the QK on the board you dont have much of a choice but to fold.

Sed

01-12-2005, 07:29 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....

Posts: 1,102

I agree, you have to show strength on the flop for situations like the turn and river in the example. A nice bet on the flop could have taken it down or at least put your opponents on the defensive when the scare cards on the turn and river came.

- sed

No fear, go deep or go home!

LeFou

01-12-2005, 07:52 PM Post subject: Re: What have I done?!

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shady

turn:

so now I'm a little worried
...
river:

well now I'm very scared I check to UTG

Don't know if this was online or live, but it looks like pair-of-eights sensed your fear? He figured he could scare you off and have his own (slight) shot at MP6's chips.

I hope you congratulated him. It was excellent play.

Ayce

01-12-2005, 08:01 PM

#5 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

You were outplayed because your betting pattern showed weakness.

You really wanted to take the pot down on the flop with a pot sized bet, which of course wouldn't have doubled you up.

Sed

01-12-2005, 08:07 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....

Posts: 1,102

Yeah, A9s isn't really a double-up hand unless you complete the flush or hit a boat. I'd take the pot on the flop and be happy with it.

- sed

No fear, go deep or go home!

Shady

01-13-2005, 01:21 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 58

Thanks for the analysis everyone, I sorta felt after the fact I should have pushed the flop more and was being awfully greedy with the slowplay on TPTK. Took that advice and put it to action later on in the night. I felt myself slowplaying my KK again cause I was down a few bucks then snapped outta it. The second hand I was feeling frisky at the time, getting down to my last few hands for the night and wanted to test my luck. Lemme hear what you think then I'll post results.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (10 handed) converter

Button ($21.9)
SB ($17)
BB ($40.7)
UTG ($23.2)
UTG+1 ($71.3)
UTG+2 ($18.85)
MP1 ($42.05)
MP2 ($26.8)
MP3 ($15.35)
Hero ($17.15)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, K

.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls $0.50, Button folds, [color:#CC3333]SB raises to $2[/color], BB folds, UTG calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.50) T

, 9

, 3

[color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
[color:#CC3333]SB bets $2[/color], UTG folds, [color:#CC3333]Hero raises to $15.15 (All-In)[/color], SB calls $13 (All-In).

Turn: ($36.65) T

[color:#0000FF](2 players, 2 all-in)[/color]

River: ($36.65) 2

[color:#0000FF](2 players, 2 all-in)[/color]

Final Pot: $36.65

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (8 handed) converter

SB ($38.85)
BB ($13.27)
UTG ($25.6)
UTG+1 ($42.3)
MP1 ($43.85)
MP2 ($23.55)
CO ($25)
Hero ($48.2)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5

, 5

.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero calls $0.50, [color:#CC3333]SB raises to $1[/color], [color:#CC3333]BB raises to $4[/color], UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $3.50, SB calls $3.

Flop: ($12.50) K

, 5

, 7

[color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
SB checks, [color:#CC3333]BB bets $2[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises to $10[/color], SB folds, BB calls $7.27 (All-In).

Turn: ($31.77) 9

[color:#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]

River: ($31.77) 3

[color:#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]

Final Pot: $31.77

FlyingSaucy

01-13-2005, 02:01 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Watching the kids

Posts: 1,603

For these two hands that you just posted, I have two comments, and they both have to do with preflop play.

First hand, you have to be the one raising preflop. If SB calls, you are in good shape. If SB raises, pause for a second to consider the possibility of AA. If the probability is not high based on the player and the amount of the re-raise, push all in.

Second hand, that's too big of a raise, IMO, to call preflop with a low pocket pair.

Otherwise, post flop your play looks alright. Except maybe a bit overagressive on the first hand, with an overpair on the flop.

Shady

01-13-2005, 05:10 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 58

I will definately try to be more aggressive on the Pre Flop raising, thanks for the input.

Here are the results of the two hands:

Hand1
Results in white below: [color:#FFFFFF]
SB has Qd Qs (two pair, queens and tens).
Hero has Kh Ks (two pair, kings and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins $36.64. [/color]

Hand2
Results in white below: [color:#FFFFFF]
BB has Qd Qc (one pair, queens).
Hero has 5d 5c (three of a kind, fives).
Outcome: Hero wins $31.77. [/color]

Might I mention my Opp here was the same guy...tapped him out twice with his QQ. He was not happy after that.

Zangief

01-13-2005, 05:15 PM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posts: 370

I agree with Saucer that $4 is too much of a raise to call with a small pocket pair ... not on absolute terms, but because the guy's stack is just $13.27. Since the odds of hitting your set on the flop are 7.5-to-1, I think his stack should be at least $4 * 7.5 = $30 to make this a profitable call. And this is only if you think he could get overcommitted to a large pocket pair.

a500lbgorilla

01-13-2005, 07:48 PM

#11 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

Deception is a lot less valuable at the low party poker limits. Just pump the bet up preflop on the first hand and get QQ, JJ, TT, AKs, AQs to tag along.

On the second hand, you called 4 bucks into a 3 way pot with a low pocket pair? That's a pretty loose call.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Molinero

01-14-2005, 03:38 PM

#12 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: In The General Vicinity of Dallas

Posts: 230

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingSaucerAttack

First hand, you have to be the one raising preflop. If SB calls, you are in good shape. If SB raises, pause for a second to consider the possibility of AA. If the probability is not high based on the player and the amount of the re-raise, push all in.

I agree 100 percent with this assessment, Saucer. If one figures the guy is playing over cards, that's where to make a stand. If you're sure your TPTK is the best hand, you've gotta terminate that hand right there.

But be prepared for the "Oh, hell, I've got overcards -- why not?" call.

"We thought you was a toad!"
-- O Brother Where Art Thou?

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