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pokerfan
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02-16-2008, 02:46 PM
Post subject: what a f uking crazy live 2-4 game
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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i spent my whole friday night sitting in local casino and playing 2-4 nl game. the table is ultra loose aggressive. In this hand, my opponents are all loose aggressive donks who like to bet huge with weak holdings.
UTG($1100) raised to $23, UTG 1($440) called, Mp3($600) called, hero($510) had :As: :Ks: in small blind and mans up popped up to $100. What amazed me is these guys all fucking called my raise.
flop( pot $400) came out : :Qh:  
folks, what should i do in this situation ?? its very temping for me to shove on this flop, right? i'm sure ppl are scared to call my huge bet even though they are loose donks.
should i really check/ fold or just push??
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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I´d probably c/f, especially live with physical moniez in front of me I´m a weak bitch.
given reads i don´t think that a shove would fold out a random Q tho, I´d rather muck and 3bet shove AKs pre next time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
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yo
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bef99hwk
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 107
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I'd say raise more preflop...standard reraises are around 3-4x and since you got two callers in between i would be making it almost 120-130ish and then shoving a flop....doesn't sound like much room to navigate.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Flat call pre or raise more right?
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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because of your reads, you should be raising more preflop, definitely not calling too. Here, I'm c/f 90% of the time.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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You suck at reading people if all you can say is "my opponents are all loose aggressive donks who like to bet huge with weak holdings."
Also, I agree that you get yourself into a spot pre-flop by just building up a pot here out of position. I'm torn between c/f and push depending on what I think of UTG. I probably let this go and adjust my pre-flop game.
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eugmac
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 739
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I think also that big pairs go up in value in games like this, and hands like AK go down simply because you get so many people to the flop and your hand is virtually unplayable in these spots without hitting top pair. Sklansky advocates raising less with AK while being happy to build pots with big pairs. In live games like this in my experience c-bets (generally speaking, barring a "weak" read) are much less effective and you have to be a lot less likely to c-bet compared to online.
In this spot I tend to just flat call, knowing that people who have already called a raise are NOT going to fold to the 3-bet, and will be happy to make a "hero call" with middle pair on the flop.
Live games are so funny - the donks have so much more "pride" and hate to fold, i.e. to appear "weak". For them it's all about honour, and the guy who calls 3-bets with suited connectors with 50bb effective stacks is regarded a hero, and TAGG players are "pussies" and "hit and run'ers" in their eyes.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by eugmac
I think also that big pairs go up in value in games like this, and hands like AK go down simply because you get so many people to the flop and your hand is virtually unplayable in these spots without hitting top pair.
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QFT
calling stations are so easy to play against
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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i played like a little scared girl : all checked to the mp3 who fucking shoved his remaining stack, all folded and he showed the party :Qd: :Td:.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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i agree that AK hand really loses some value in live games when compared with online. Sometimes, its damm so hard to lay down AK preflop coz we rarely see quality cards in live games per hour. However, 3 bet with AK should still gain value from weak/loose aggressive players. here's another AK hand a few hands later i didnt 4 bet shove coz i felt uncomfortable after losing that big hand. Still, its AK oop in multiway pot 
hero($420) UTG :Ad: :Kd: raised to $16, MP1($320) called, button($240) called, small blind($920) reraised to $66, hero called, Mp1 called, button called. Should hero mans up and 4 bet shove or fold in this spot??? small blind is a loose donk who took down sexy pot above with QT. By the way, 3 bet standard at this table is relatively tight.
flop came out :Kh: :Th: small blind bet $100, hero ??
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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In both hands, raise more with AK. AK is a great hand v. stations; AT-AQ are going to be insta-calling you at this level. Also KQ/KJ.
Second hand, I'm not sure about the preflop action.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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second hand, Is 4 bet shove preflop with AK +EV in this ultra loose aggressive games? When i just called his 3 bet, i knew its definitely another 4 way pot , which sucks really damass.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigslikk
In both hands, raise more with AK. AK is a great hand v. stations; AT-AQ are going to be insta-calling you at this level. Also KQ/KJ.
Second hand, I'm not sure about the preflop action.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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In the second hand, I would probably fold pre-flop.
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