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What is an appropriate river bet here?

  
 
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DaHorror
Old 03-23-2006, 07:44 PM     Post subject: What is an appropriate river bet here? #1 (permalink)  
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Readless on this particular cat - he had just sat down as you can see by his stack size.
I am not too worried about this board...how much can be extracted from my opponent on the end? I was figuring $4-5 or allin river bluff (after reviewing the hand).
Does one bet more on the turn as well given opponents likely range? I don't want to scare him away.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($7.90)
BB ($25)
UTG ($28.15)
UTG+1 ($9.50)
UTG+2 ($45.30)
MP1 ($23.25)
MP2 ($5.70)
MP3 ($31.83)
CO ($5.80)
Hero ($26.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
4 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, MP3 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.5, 1 fold, BB calls $1.25, MP2 calls $1.25, MP3 folds.

Flop: ($4.85) 5, 5, 3 (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $3, BB calls $3, MP2 folds.

Turn: ($10.85) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB calls $4.

River: ($18.85) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $18.85

Results and further comments in white below:
BB has 8s 8h (two pair, eights and fives).
Hero has Ks Kc (two pair, kings and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins $18.85.

Oh - and before you make too much fun of me for pussing out altogether (still kicking myself in the nuts which is quite uncomfortable), I had lost a recent hand with KK to a slowplay (didn't overpay) - so I played it overly safe in case he chased the gutshot and lost value --- leak!
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STIdrivr
Old 03-23-2006, 08:09 PM #2 (permalink)  
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bet a lil more on the turn if you are planning on checking the river. He is in the BB so he could have A3,A4 or A5 so by the river it is getting a lil scary but he did call a raise pre flop. The way it was played checking the river is not bad i dont think, you would be in a very tough spot if check raised. I personally think this guy has a pocket pair 6-10
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DaHorror
Old 03-24-2006, 03:08 PM #3 (permalink)  
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The lack of a river bet was just butt silly of me.
My thinking was that this is not a dangerous flop for me, so I don't need to overbet here. I am vulnerable to Ax catching an A or bicycle, so I bet to enough to dissuade that. Thus the turn card is a little scary (I am pretty green on $25 NL - $10 NL people will chase gutshot bicycle draws with an A in hand somewhat regularly)...but not terribly worrisome. The most likely hand that he has is a mid pocket pair. I want him to hang around, and if he has the bike he'll probably let me know here with a minraise. So I bet a little weakly - just slightly stronger than the flop bet - if he hit something here he already has me beat so there's no need to overbet to discourage a draw.
Then I mistakenly check-behind on the river just in case he had bottom pair and was table-sherriffing me...dumb. I think another $4-5 on the river would be called, though I had an extremely similar hand this morning on a 952 type of flop where I did go ahead and bet about that on the river blank and the guy folded his pair. I was out of position on that hand so I didn't feel that I had as much of a choice as to whether or not to bet (though in retrospect a check would have been better to allow him to bet his pair at me, which this particular character probably would have done - so I lost some value there too).

Anyhow - I was just curious as to what corrective measure I needed to take to avoid losing a few bucks here in the future - my read was dead on, and I didn't stick with it on the river and played it too safe.
In this particular hand, I made a minor mistake - it's just that these type of things add up over time.

Thanks for the comment
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Fnord
Old 03-24-2006, 03:10 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I either check the turn or bet it harder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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andy-akb
Old 03-24-2006, 03:52 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHorror
The lack of a river bet was just butt silly of me.
My thinking was that this is not a dangerous flop for me, so I don't need to overbet here. I am vulnerable to Ax catching an A or bicycle, so I bet to enough to dissuade that. Thus the turn card is a little scary (I am pretty green on $25 NL - $10 NL people will chase gutshot bicycle draws with an A in hand somewhat regularly)...but not terribly worrisome. The most likely hand that he has is a mid pocket pair. I want him to hang around, and if he has the bike he'll probably let me know here with a minraise. So I bet a little weakly - just slightly stronger than the flop bet - if he hit something here he already has me beat so there's no need to overbet to discourage a draw.
Your bet on the turn is not stronger than your bet on the flop. On the flop you bet more than 3/5 of the pot, on the turn you less than 2/5 of the pot, that is a weaker bet.

As far as the rest of what you said, I dont know how much I can comment, getting value on the river is something I have trouble with. When I have a hand and and im position with villain calling down all the way and then checking to me on the river, what should my criteria be for firing another bet? In the hand in the OP I would check behind, Id probably play the turn differently though. So again, when should you check behind and when should you value bet?
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STIdrivr
Old 03-24-2006, 09:09 PM #6 (permalink)  
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you expecially should bet more on the turn if you think he has a mid pair, cause he likes his hand now and there is a very good chance an over card will fall on river.
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