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Miffed22001
Old 12-12-2006, 11:03 PM     Post subject: Welcome to spewsville? #1 (permalink)  
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 Bodog 200nl 6max (sry no HH)

Only previous hand like this with opp was i raised AK and c-bet a J high flop and got minraised so i called and c/f'ed the turn unimproved.

120bbs effective stacks
Miff (sb)
Villain (bb)

Folded to my bb, i find

I raise to $8
BB calls

Flop (pot $16)


I bet $14, bb calls.

Turn (pot $44)
:As:

I bet $25, villain raises to $50, i call $25.

River (pot $144)


I check, opp bets $30 Miff raises all in...
Opp has ~$100 left

Spewy or awfully standard?
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zenbitz
Old 12-12-2006, 11:30 PM #2 (permalink)  
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You really think he calls with AX here?
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Miffed22001
Old 12-13-2006, 12:53 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbitz
You really think he calls with AX here?
Perhaps, maybe.
What was more encouraging is that i dont think he has a flush here that often at all, but the same probably goes for me. Hence, why would he not call with Ax? Surely i look like im buying it right?
A set was a possibility too, but sat at the table i didnt suspect a set at all.
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DaHorror
Old 12-13-2006, 04:06 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Who cares if he calls or not as Ax (Ax of hearts in particular) would not surprise me as his holdings...I think the river play is fine and mostly serves to confirm that you have the best hand. I have more questions about the turn play.

(a) You lead into a card that might have hit him - fine - maintaining control of the hand + FE + not getting blown off your hand by a floater
(b) He indicates (weakly by the minreraise) that this card hit him (or less likely that he didn't need it)...and he may have the flush draw to boot...your outs are few and your showdown value is diminishing...

Why call the turn reraise with so few outs? By doing so, is one simply indicating a willingness to show down, thereby reducing the chances that he bets/tries to push you off any river without a strong hand?
What is your plan for a blank river? Another A? Another heart?
I'm assuming you would c/f the A or heart, so I think I'm more interested in a blank...do you blocking bet that or check-call reasonable bet?

Interesting-enough blind-battle hand - thanks for posting it.
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Margin Of Error
Old 12-13-2006, 04:12 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Whats he calling the flop with is my question?
She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
 
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Miffed22001
Old 12-13-2006, 12:06 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHorror
Who cares if he calls or not as Ax (Ax of hearts in particular) would not surprise me as his holdings...I think the river play is fine and mostly serves to confirm that you have the best hand. I have more questions about the turn play.

(a) You lead into a card that might have hit him - fine - maintaining control of the hand + FE + not getting blown off your hand by a floater
(b) He indicates (weakly by the minreraise) that this card hit him (or less likely that he didn't need it)...and he may have the flush draw to boot...your outs are few and your showdown value is diminishing...

Why call the turn reraise with so few outs? By doing so, is one simply indicating a willingness to show down, thereby reducing the chances that he bets/tries to push you off any river without a strong hand?
What is your plan for a blank river? Another A? Another heart?
I'm assuming you would c/f the A or heart, so I think I'm more interested in a blank...do you blocking bet that or check-call reasonable bet?

Interesting-enough blind-battle hand - thanks for posting it.
I have some horrible calling station tendancies, particularly in the button versus blind battles and blind versus blind battles.
Ive seen hands like KT and even bare flush draws plus obvious Ax hands played this way especially in the blinds, and the fact is i probably 2 barrel a lot of hands here for value.
The other case is that yes, a strong second pair worthy of showdown oop facing a donk-raise on a possibly dangerous card means i probably should fold, but i though that was really weak to fold to a card that possibly hit opp. I want to force a showdown because im not convinced im not good all that often. Sure, opp may have Axh or even a rag ace two pair, but he may have a lot of other crap that people defend with against me(KT/KJ came to mind)
I also thought he may fold an Ax here on the river, or call because my line looks awfully bluffy. Perhaps my intention was to bluff a spade, i cant remember fully. My intention was certainly to block and fold to a raise.

FWIW, opp called and fliped up AQo, called me a fish and left the table.
GG resuckouts
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DaHorror
Old 12-13-2006, 05:30 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
I have some horrible calling station tendancies, particularly in the button versus blind battles and blind versus blind battles.
And I'm guessing you're not the only one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
The other case is that yes, a strong second pair worthy of showdown oop facing a donk-raise on a possibly dangerous card means i probably should fold, but i though that was really weak to fold to a card that possibly hit opp. I want to force a showdown because im not convinced im not good all that often.
Ok - good nuff answer for me. I'm really just trying to compare thoughts behind the play since I know you were thinking here...heat of the moment I probably go 'aw shit' on the turn and call too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Sure, opp may have Axh or even a rag ace two pair
Yea the Ace-rag two-pair is the only hand I'm all that worried about here for the most part...at least on the river play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
I also thought he may fold an Ax here on the river, or call because my line looks awfully bluffy. Perhaps my intention was to bluff a spade, i cant remember fully. My intention was certainly to block and fold to a raise.
Yea that makes sense to me. Check gets you a cheap showdown possibility, but after his really weak river bet you pretty much know you're good against everything but Ace-rag 2-pair and the reraise-push looks bluffy enough to get a bare ace to call so I definitely like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
FWIW, opp called and fliped up AQo, called me a fish and left the table. GG resuckouts
Sweet re-suck of his flop suckout (and all-around horrible play) NH you
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biondino
Old 12-13-2006, 05:56 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Problem is AQ is pretty close to beaing the only hand you beat here that re-raises the turn. His line is the trad donk set line at lower stakes, so I wouldn't rule that out.

What I don't understand here is that you're probably beat, but you've pushed over a bet from a villain who has shown strength, albeit in a rather obvious way. How can this be good most of the time? The way I play hands like this when I figure I'm behind 50-75% of the time is to call. Is this bad? I feel I'm missing a BIG part of poker but I can't quite see how...

(sometimes higher stakes NL feels like limit - there's so much chance you're up against a bluff that calling almost anything on the river is worthwhile)
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DaHorror
Old 12-13-2006, 06:21 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biondino
The way I play hands like this when I figure I'm behind 50-75% of the time is to call. Is this bad? I feel I'm missing a BIG part of poker but I can't quite see how...
Check-calling the river here isn't terrible.
However, I think the river info that opponent gives us is key...
(a) He basically donk-bets the river - essentially just betting what he did on the turn. That does not indicate strength of > than 1 pair. You can't rule out a two-pair hand but I think even AK/AJ bets more than that on the river, as does a set. So this is highly telling that miffed rivered opponents pair of aces - ace-rag two-pair you just pay off, as well as having the greatest amount of FE vs. that hand.
(b) His bet also looks like it leaves him with room to fold if he is reraised...but then a reraise allin by Miffed just looks like a desperation buy so he calls anyway.
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