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sejje
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12-06-2005, 01:47 AM
Post subject: Uh oh...
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
saw flop|saw showdown
BB ($99)
UTG ($102.55)
UTG+1 ($94.75)
MP1 ($90.95)
MP2 ($20)
CO ($61.70)
Hero ($99.05)
SB ($125.45)
Preflop: Hero is Button with A , A . CO posts a blind of $1.50. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, UTG calls $4, CO folds.
Flop: ($13) T , 5, 3 (3 players)
UTG bets $10, Hero ??
I hate aces getting bet into on low flops, because I'm paranoid like that. So what range do you have villian on, besides the obvious TT, 55, 33? Flush draw make that bet? AsKs?
Are you raising for info, raising to protect, calling to see the turn play, folding?
Hero calls $10.
Turn: ($33) 5 (3 players)
UTG bets $20, Hero ???
Sorry for passivity on the past couple of hands. I just can't see what bets into me here.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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...raises to $65
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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i don't see how you don't think you are definately winning here, but you need to raise it up on the flop to see whats going on. But up to the point of the turn i think he has an overpair or AKo, AKs. He just wouldn't bet the pot again with a full house here, because you could easily think that his first bet was a continuation.
and if you think he has a 5 your insane, in fact the five was really good, because it makes you a little more certain he didn't have a set of 5's
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
i don't see how you don't think you are definately winning here, but you need to raise it up on the flop to see whats going on. But up to the point of the turn i think he has an overpair or AKo, AKs. He just wouldn't bet the pot again with a full house here, because you could easily think that his first bet was a continuation.
and if you think he has a 5 your insane, in fact the five was really good, because it makes you a little more certain he didn't have a set of 5's
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Well, in light of that, I folded and he showed off his quads.
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ChrisBCritter
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sejje
Well, in light of that, I folded and he showed off his quads.
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And by doing so he gave you some great information!! He bets his monsters pretty hard!! and he probably put you on a high overpair that wouldn't let go. So he's a thinking player, not a donk. Lucky thing for you that an A didn't show up on that board...
Still gotta re-raise that flop everytime. Scared money is LOST money.
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Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
Still gotta re-raise that flop everytime. Scared money is LOST money.
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Why? I see merit in both flop and turn calls. Do you trust that you can laydown if he 3-bets the flop? Without a read?
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ChrisBCritter
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
Still gotta re-raise that flop everytime. Scared money is LOST money.
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Why? I see merit in both flop and turn calls. Do you trust that you can laydown if he 3-bets the flop? Without a read? |
Depends on the Villian. I have laid down rockets in this situation; EP Bets, I raise 3x, EP re-raises 3x my raise, Fold. EP shows a set. Not to say that this is what would happen every time, but I can fold with that type of action.
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Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Am I over-estimating the frequency an unknown 3-bets A x on the flop?
The other problem I have with a flop raise is that it makes it more likely showdown is going to cost us our stack.
On the turn we're way ahead/behind unless you consider the flush draw.
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finky
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 270
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Raise the flop to 30, Possible hands to bet into you could be a flush draw, set, or maybe something like J10/K10 or even a stone cold bluff thinking the flop probably missed you. Either way you need more information and to charge for the next card as in any case the the turn could help him more than it helps you. Any further aggression indicates your beat as 10x / draw / bluff will get cautious or fold. From an average/good player only set would hit again worried about AKs or KQs. If he smooth calls go into shutdown, if he's still betting on the turn he knows you have an overpair and dosen't care, unless he's a maniac, fold.
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ChrisBCritter
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Am I over-estimating the frequency an unknown 3-bets A x on the flop?
The other problem I have with a flop raise is that it makes it more likely showdown is going to cost us our stack.
On the turn we're way ahead/behind unless you consider the flush draw. |
Come on, you don't like showing down/playing for stacks with AA??
What about the villian making this continuation bet with QQ thinking you have AK?? Again, I think a (non-committing) flop re-raise is in order here 9/10 times. If he 3-bets (seems like a foreign word in NL) then you have to consider you might be beat, and prevent yourself from losing your entire stack.
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Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
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