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Ugly river out of position

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bdawg56kg

11-05-2005, 12:07 AM Post subject: Ugly river out of position

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

My notes on villian was that he was very aggressive when shown weakness. When he flat calls my flop raise, I figure he either has a set or a flush draw. When the turn is a blank and he smooth calls my turn bet, I am very sure he is on a flush draw or has a ten at the very least. Don't you think a set comes alive here? The river is terrible in the sense that he has me beat if he was drawing to the nut flush, but any other flush draw I have beat. Fold or call here?

***** Hand History for Game 2871178281 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, November 04, 19:54:24 EDT 2005
Table Table 36881 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: Mucknfold ( $53.85 )
Seat 5: sax308 ( $15.75 )
Seat 7: bsteger ( $66.55 )
Seat 8: aaronsc ( $69.60 )
Seat 6: bdawg56 ( $72.55 )
Seat 1: AcademyBerms ( $74.10 )
Seat 9: CARBIZ29 ( $53.55 )
Seat 10: maria85 ( $15.50 )
Seat 3: xxcraboxx ( $45.20 )
Seat 2: PPvTrips ( $57.05 )
CARBIZ29 posts small blind [$0.25].
maria85 posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to bdawg56 [ Qs Qd ]
AcademyBerms calls [$0.50].
PPvTrips folds.
xxcraboxx folds.
Mucknfold folds.
sax308 folds.
bdawg56 raises [$2].
bsteger folds.
aaronsc calls [$2].
CARBIZ29 calls [$1.75].
maria85 folds.
AcademyBerms calls [$1.50].
>You have options at Table 36586 Table!.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Th, 4h, 2c ]
CARBIZ29 checks.
AcademyBerms bets [$3].
bdawg56 raises [$9].
aaronsc calls [$9].
CARBIZ29 folds.
AcademyBerms folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
bdawg56 bets [$14].
aaronsc calls [$14].
** Dealing River ** [ As ]
bdawg56 checks.
aaronsc is all-In [$44.60]
bdawg56 ???

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Fnord

11-05-2005, 12:33 AM

#2 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

This is why I usually bet the river.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

11-05-2005, 02:14 AM

#3 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

HiJack!

CO is yet another fishy short-stacked drop in.
Last time SB min-bet he had the goods, although I'm begining to suspect it's more likely he doesn't like the check button.
BB is raising every other hand pre-flop.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($100)
BB ($63.55)
UTG ($124.60)
UTG+1 ($37.40)
MP1 ($57)
Fnord ($192.15)
CO ($46.50)
Button ($23.40)

Preflop: Fnord is MP2 with A

, J

.
3 folds, Fnord calls $1, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($5) K

, T

, A

(5 players)
SB bets $1, BB folds, Fnord raises to $3, CO calls $3, Button folds, SB folds.

Turn: ($12) 5

(2 players)
Fnord bets $5, CO calls $5.

River: ($22) T

(2 players)
Fnord bets $5...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

DaHorror

11-06-2005, 03:12 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

Isn't an allin on the river always suspicious?
I had someone pull this crap on me earlier with a 3 flush board where I had kings and after I mistakenly checked the river (usually I bet something at least as well)...he had a weaker overpair and was just a calling station that suddenly decided that I had two overcards because I was a little worried about the flush draw.

Fnord's hijack - looks like the guy has a weaker ace or KQ/KJ.
Or something with a queen or a jack with it. He either folded the river or flatcalled with a weaker hand.

If he was calling with QJ or hit a fullhouse on the river somehow, then he'll suddenly come alive and reraise, but only to a callable amount - $15-$20 - not just allin for the rest of his stack - unless he's bluffing most of the time.

r8ed

11-06-2005, 04:47 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

No reraise preflop with QQ?

Lukie

11-06-2005, 07:19 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: back with a vengeance

Posts: 3,307

Quote:

Originally Posted by r8ed

No reraise preflop with QQ?

Hero was the original raiser preflop.

Also, why do you have to reraise QQ preflop? I usually pop in a reraise (not a rereraise) with QQ, but cold-calling with QQ still gives you great set value.. especially in a multiway pot.

As played, I think this is a fold on the river.

bdawg56kg

11-06-2005, 11:28 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

Well this is how the hand played out.

bdawg56 calls [$44.60].
bdawg56 shows [ Qs, Qd ] a pair of queens.
aaronsc doesn't show [ 6h, Kh ] high card ace.
bdawg56 wins $143.70 from the main pot with a pair of queens.

Here is my thinking. I found a large all in bet on the river to be very suspicious, simply becuase I could not think of a hand other than a bluff that he could be on. I think many times when the aggressor overbets on the river it is a value bet a large percentage of the time, but when a guy smooth calls the flop and turn, then overbets the river, it seems to be a bluff the majority of the time. Agree? Don't you think a marginal holding like Tx or even Ahxh that just hit top pair checks behind here for the free showdown? The only hand I was worried about was AT, but I would think AT makes a value bet here, something like $20. Also, I thought that it was unlikely for villian to be holding a 3, other than 33, but 33 would've folded long ago.

To clarify, I think this is a no-brainer laydown without a read, but here I had a read, so things were different. The reason I checked on the river was to hopefully get a free showdown and party to let villian bluff if he had a busted draw. Of course villian could be using this psychology against me, but that's the risk I took when I called.

As far as reraising w/QQ, I think it totally depends on position and your read on the raiser. If he is on the lag side, I like a reraise with or without position. If villian is tight, I will reraise with position and smooth call out of position.

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Ugly river out of position

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