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mxiu
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04-10-2009, 02:09 PM
Post subject: ugh i want to folddddd
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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villain is 9/4/1 over 450 hands
i know, standard muck pf, yadi yada
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (UTG) ($153.55)
MP1 ($100)
MP2 ($20)
CO ($62.35)
Button ($226)
SB ($20.50)
BB ($20.75)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5 , 5
Hero bets $4, MP1 calls $4, 5 folds
Flop: ($9.50) 5 , 7, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $7, MP1 calls $7
Turn: ($23.50) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $15, MP1 raises to $33.50, Hero?
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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lol no never
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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are we shoving then?
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tyrn
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 189
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what's his 3bet, and are you considering folding because of his AF?
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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aren't we fist pump shoving it here?
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oskar
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04-10-2009, 04:39 PM
Post subject: Re: ugh i want to folddddd
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#6 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mxiu
i know, standard muck pf, yadi yada
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Standard open for me 7 handed.
I'm not fistpumping anything when someone like that raises me.
3-bet % would be interesting.
I think this is TT or 77 a lot... just how much, I don't know. I'm not folding, but I'm not thrilled either. 78, 67 should not be in his calling range, KK AA he would 3-bet. He's not minraising on a flushdraw, and probably not raising on a draw like ever.
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AFchung
aren't we fist pump shoving it here?
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tight nit is tight
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,813
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shove vs villain's AA/KK/TT/77/7d8d range
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HarleyGuy13
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,226
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Why would you consider folding this? Seems like the world played out just the way we hoped it would. Now if you really were considering fold, rather than being results oriented and thinking after the fact "Damn I should have folded" why the hell did you play 55 if not for the set? What kind of flop were you hoping for? Would really like to hear what you have to say.
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"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it  |
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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While probably being a bit results oriented, I felt sick after getting flatted on the flop against this type of opp. I was considering c/c'ing the turn for pot control. I knew if I led the turn I'm pretty much committed given the opps possible range here, I just think it's heavily weighted to TT/77 given that I have a decent sample on the guy who is an ultra nit. 9/4/1 stats aren't anything to scoff at. Granted I'm never folding, but I would've liked alternative ways to play the hand and other people's opinions. If I didn't feel troubled by this hand once I saw one action from the opp, I wouldn't have posted this hand.
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i hate how everyone's like, 'omg you made a good hand you WANTED money going in' as if there's no difference between you betting -> him flatting, and you betting -> him raising.
And Daven, i'm not sure if he'd raise KK/AA and there's a good chance he'd fold those to a shove.
mxiu is right that 9/4/1 + turn raise = the nuts.
Still, sometimes they do goofy things.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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if u fold this i will murder you
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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so what's the consensus here... calling > shoving or shoving > calling?
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,459
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And this is why u should fold preflop if u dont wanna play for stacks when u hit.
I'm curious what kind of action you would happily get it in here with.
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"the world def needs more bikeses"
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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I think 55 is a standard open utg 7handed no?
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,459
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by badgers
I think 55 is a standard open utg 7handed no?
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Meh I wouldn't agree with regs who don't adjust to the fact the table is almost shorthanded.
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"the world def needs more bikeses"
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bbickes
And this is why u should fold preflop if u dont wanna play for stacks when u hit.
I'm curious what kind of action you would happily get it in here with.
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i said i want to fold, not that i ever will. it's 100bb's i don't give a shit about it really, i just had a good feeling this nit got the perfect board against me. i would've been happier if the opp raised the flop, but the flat on the flop and raising a paired turn just screams a monster so much more. at least on the flop i can throw QQ-AA in his range if I think he's that nitty.
i didn't notice this was 7 handed when i first posted it, thought it was full.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bbickes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by badgers
I think 55 is a standard open utg 7handed no?
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Meh I wouldn't agree with regs who don't adjust to the fact the table is almost shorthanded. |
isn't it a good thing if other regs think our range is narrower than it is? Either way regs will probably adjust slightly (although I would presume a 9/4 nit has a similar calling range utg vs utg+1 and co vs button because they don't think a lot). Regardless, there are less players to go though to make this a succesful steal, I think it's a standard raise.
Either way it's a lot of writing about something that is marginal/ doesn't really matter...
As for call vs. shove turn which is a much more interesting point, it obviously depends a lot on reads beyond stats... If you think he is capable of doing this with air (some nits go crazy postflop) and following through on the river then call, c/c river.. What I think is more likely is that he has KK+ enough to make shoving better.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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how far along are with you your operation this year badgers?
i noticed your thread hasn't been updated in quite a while... i was thinking of the same kind of operation, but I started late this year and with school in the way, I can probably only make it like a bit past half way or something.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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only 126k veeps this year, obv way off the pace and I think I will update my op to operation get through college with my next update (haven't updated cos I'm putting off posting my epic fails obv). Anyway hopefully I'll reach 600k vpps but my focus has very much gone from paying rake to improving my game/ playing better at fewer tables/ not failing college so even that is unlikely!
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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i was spamming your name when you joined one of my tables and you never responded =[
ditto on the college thing.. if I didn't have school, supernova elite would be ezmode.. I'm actually cramming for a final that I have in 45 min right now hahah, good thing i'm on FTR talking about imaginary veeps rofl
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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haha sorry, I tend to miss chat a lot since I stack my tables and have all dealer messages enabled (something I highly recommend - if you are ever unsure of action on previous streets due to being in multiple tough hands or autopilting etc, just scroll up chatbox to see all the action.)
GL in ur exam 
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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wow, i actually do have occasional problems remembering the action on previous streets, i'm definitely turning that on during my next session
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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btw link me the original picture in your avatar, looks epic
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JinxT4
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 265
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I kinda want to fold tbh. But, then I tell myself the nit can have JJ/QQ, shove, & cross my fingers. Who is villain btw? Also, are you mixmix on Stars?
Also, to get badgers' attention, just 3bet him a few times. Then he responds to your chat. 
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[04:18] <+Bbickes> do u has teh agoraphobia?
[04:18] <+fat> im agressive yes
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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ummm yeah that may be true but please dont 
sorry but i cant find the pic any bigger than this. I built it at icanhascheezburger, didnt save and have only got the small version saved on my comp sorry i fail...
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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texa8
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 207
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if you're worried and got that strong a read on i think smooth calling and c/c'ing the river seems fine.
that would keep KK+ in his range... if it was ever there..
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sk8r_daniel
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 330
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Very interesting thread imo. Its funny that some ppl play so bad that you even think about folding bottom set here.
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Lucothefish
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cretaceous Park
Posts: 703
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I think even if that turn raise was a shove I'd have trouble folding. Well, maybe not, but you get the idea. This is one of those hands I just couldn't get away from, purely because he could take this line with overpairs (I think that's already been said though).
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<@d0zer> how will you learn if I don't berate you harshly?
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CBAT
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 831
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Then fold. No one is forcing you to call or raise!
Also 3bet% would help a great deal. If it's in the 3-4% area then he most likely has you beat. Because he would be reraising his overpairs back at your preflop.
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2ndline.4thstreet
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 120
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If you want to fold then go right ahead but you're folding the best hand here. SHIP IT.
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Xo_Sirk_oX
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 96
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bbickes
And this is why u should fold preflop if u dont wanna play for stacks when u hit.
I'm curious what kind of action you would happily get it in here with.
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Kind of the same line I was thinking.
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jessyj
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 90
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Why do you want to fold?
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Galiana
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 20
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u have to play this to the END! if u fold this..what are u calling with? what do u want to get,a poker of aces,or a str8 flush? lol..this is a unfoldeable hand man!
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if u cannot spot the sucker on the first half hour at the table,you are the sucker.
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golfguy37
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Straight
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 217
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Thats an easy call. I think he had something like 7 - A.
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aK13
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by golfguy37
Thats an easy call. I think he had something like 7 - A.
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Nits don't coldcall with A7.
FWIW unless you've actually paid attention to all those 450 hands I'm not certain you could make the assessment KK/AA are out of his range on the turn. Obviously I understand that his range is very narrow and monsters comprise probably half of it, but folding is just too weak. This isn't exactly a terrible flop for him to slowplay an overpair if he has As or Ks.
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poker3player333
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 52
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U can't fold this here. No way....
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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this is a clear snap fold
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
this is a clear snap fold
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i like the way you think, potd
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Extremophile
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Stackton
Posts: 451
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I think, this is a call or raise situation; I can't fold this hand obviously. The only hand that can beat me is 10s in which case it is OK to go broke against it. He either made trip 7s or have a big pocket pair. I think flat call would be the best to get called for more on the river.
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Technobabble
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3
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Never a fold at 100NL. Oppo will make this move with a wide variety of hands.
We're beating - AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AT, A7, AX spades and a bluff.
Only losing to 77 (Very unlikely) or TT (Very unlucky).
Shove to cut the odds for the flush draw to call at the right price.
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etsocaL
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 11
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sorry for my comment...need 10 posts for posting url links
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hangchiong
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 359
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etsocal needs to be banned for posting that
for your info: you could do better than just " sorry for my comment"
troll alert
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revolvingiris
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,139
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I'd be more interested in seeing villains pf CC range then 3bet%. What were your stats/do you know if villain knew your stats? This game/level of thinking is far beyond my skill level. But is it possible to call and re-evaluate river? Or do we loose to much value?
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because you were too aggressive, but not put together a good hand
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