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Two pair is never the nuts part deux

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DaHorror

10-20-2005, 03:38 PM Post subject: Two pair is never the nuts part deux

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

A hand for instructional purposes.

I am only showing the key players in this hand - and pardon the Pacific lack of a hand history.

EP1 posts $0.10
(this player was a lucky fish - called big bets with gutshot draws etc.)
MP2 posts $0.10
(No particular read - 2 tabling and didn't see this guy with any action)
Hero (BB) checks

Hero is dealt :Jc:

Pot ($0.60)
Flop :Jh:

Hero bets $0.60
EP1 calls $0.60
MP2 reraises to $1.20 *1
Hero reraises to $3.00 *2
EP1 folds
MP2 is allin $5.61 *3

*1 Standard donkey reraise - misleading
*2 I want EP1 out of this hand with his 34 or 45 or whatever garbage he
held - this may be bad as he may have had jack bad kicker like me - also
I want information about MP2's holdings and I don't donkey minreraise
*3 Range of hands I put MP2 on, based on general $.05/$.10 table style -
KJ/QJ/JT/J9, J2, 22, 55
His allin gave me the information I was looking for to some extent - he has either J2 or 22 or he is a complete donkey.

What's your play and why? Will post mine later.

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PokerPatNEU

10-20-2005, 03:49 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 797

Is that an aditional 5.61 for you to call his all in? or 2.61 more?

DaHorror

10-20-2005, 04:03 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

Sorry for not being clear on that matter - it's an extra $5.61 for me to call his allin.

PokerPatNEU

10-20-2005, 04:13 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 797

Ok so there is ~6.50 in the pot before his all in, 12$ or so in the pot now and its up to you to call an additional 5.60 more with top two pair?

At this limit i think it's a clear call getting 2:1 because a lot of players at 10NL will push the flop all in even facing reraises with TPGK. QJ, KJ, JT, are all very likely holdings. Minraising with a set of 2's or 5's is also a very common play though. I think its 50/50 that you are ahead or behind at this point and the pot odds justify a call if thats the case.

Dunk

10-20-2005, 04:27 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Metrowest Massachusetts

Posts: 131

I know I'd probably call it. If that call was more than my stack, then I'm short enough that two pair sounds like a good place to make a stand. I know thats Trny thinking more than Ring, but I don't have as much Ring experience.

Rainbow flop and no straight possibility - yeah, I'm in this.

4 outs to make full.

(jk)

Note: new guy and very open to constructive criticism, so go ahead and weigh in! I'm here to learn.

DaHorror

10-20-2005, 05:45 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

One question before I get going: was the flop reraise too much? basically took my bet from $0.60 to $3.60 - looking back it seems like I overdid it - minraising is just so donkey to me this probably threw me off - and it was late - I think $1.50 - $2 would have done the 'information gathering' trick.

An interesting point you have made Pat.
I was originally posting this as a 'what not to do' thread.
Here's why:

(1) I got a bit too married to this crappy BB hand - it's 10c garbage I wouldn't have even played otherwise and shouldn't care to0 much to win with - I was trying to just take it at the flop (kinda stupid as this is not likely given my position), or get called by QJ/KJ/JT - probably what EP1 had.

(2) I bet for information, got that information, and then didn't act on it. Sure I've got outs, but you don't call allin
with outs on a cash table unless it's a lot of people allin,
and/or you have so many outs that you are a favorite to win.

Now - the reasons I made the play that I did:
(1) I was only up a buck or so at this table in 30 mins and hadn't had a hand in the last 20 - in other words, I was impatient - slap my hand.

(2) I have been a bit corrupted of late playing at the $0.05/$0.10 tables and being in a similar situation where the guy turned up a worse hand.

(3) I was about 50% sure that the guy had deuces - other 50% Jx with J2s the most likely.

I guess I'm calling around $6 into a $12 pot with a 50% chance to win based on my view of what he has and at worst case a ~17% chance to win if he's got deuces.

Results:

Hero calls $5.61 allin (we had about the same amount at the time)

Hero shows 2 pair Jacks and Fives
MP2 shows 3 of a kind deuces

Hero nearly loses his stack, and leaves the table for bed after this hand

Pelion

10-24-2005, 06:14 PM Post subject: Re: Two pair is never the nuts part deux

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHorror

MP2 posts $0.10
(No particular read - 2 tabling and didn't see this guy with any action)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHorror

he has either J2 or 22 or he is a complete donkey.

If you havnt seen him with any action and he called preflop then he doesnt have J2. 22 beats you. I think you have to fold here.
However if he plays alot of hands with only 1 high card then definate call.
Thats my $0.02

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Two pair is never the nuts part deux

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