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Two hands -- one folded, one shoulda....

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sarbox68

10-08-2007, 08:02 PM Post subject: Two hands -- one folded, one shoulda....

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from

Posts: 871

Hand 1: Villain 39/12/2.8. Fold to the Turn Raise?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($10.10)
SB ($10)
BB ($4.40)
UTG ($10.50)
UTG+1 ($18.75)
MP1 ($10)
MP2 ($11.25)
MP3 ($2.10)
CO ($1.85)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A

, J

. UTG posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG+1 raises to $0.4, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.40, BB calls $0.35, 1 fold.

Flop: ($1.30) 4

, A

, 8

(4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets $1, Hero raises to $3, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $2.

Turn: ($7.30) 6

(3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $3, UTG+1 raises to $6, Hero calls $3.

River: ($19.30) 8

(3 players)
UTG+1 bets $0.1, Hero calls $0.10.

Final Pot: $19.50

Hand 2: Villain 32/3.5/1.8. Good fold?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $8.80
UTG+1: $1.75
MP1: $8.05
MP2: $9.95
CO: $20.90
Hero: $9.70
SB: $3.90
BB: $3.70

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is Button with A

UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO raises to $0.4, Hero calls, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: 6

($1.85, 4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets $0.6, CO folds, Hero raises to $2.4, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises all-in $7.65, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $5.25 returned to MP1.

Results:
Final pot: $6.65

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bigspenda73

10-08-2007, 08:09 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,546

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

I really think you need to take a step back, go into pokerstove, and evaluate AJo's equity against the range of a PFR at these levels.

You might be surprised

sarbox68

10-08-2007, 08:30 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from

Posts: 871

Spenda - So I think I did this right... W/ PFR of 12-14%, I'm assuming a range of TT+,AT+,KJ,KT,QJ,QT,JT.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.203% 56.72% 00.48% 1072317360 9029364.00 { AJo }
Hand 1: 42.797% 42.32% 00.48% 800007528 9029364.00 { TT+, KJs-KTs, QTs+, JTs, KJo-KTo, QTo+, JTo }

So if I'm reading that right, I'm a 57% favorite against his raising range? Then for Hand 1, at the Turn PS has me at a 97% favorite based on that range. Which to me means calling the raise was correct. On Hand 2, I'm a 92% favorite against the same range on the flop so I should have called down.

Or am I just retarded and missing the entire point?

bigspenda73

10-08-2007, 08:36 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,546

You're missing the point a bit, a 12% PFR range UTG is much different than his range OTB. Try about 3-4% for UTG+1 range at FullRing.

It's what we refer to as "being positionally aware" If he's not, then he'll open the same hands UTG+1 as he would OTB, if he is positionally aware, then he would open a much looser range OTB than he would UTG+1. You need a read here, so have you seen him open a weak hand like QTs UTG+1?

sarbox68

10-08-2007, 08:42 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from

Posts: 871

Ouch... okay, I don't like those numbers anywhere nearly as much...

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

82,190,592 games 0.005 secs 16,438,118,400 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 27.756% 26.30% 01.46% 21613203 1199724.50 { AhJs }
Hand 1: 72.244% 70.78% 01.46% 58177940 1199724.50 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }

Based on that, I'd fold PF Hand 1 ( I don't have a read on him... stats were pulled in from observing FT tables over night... not my direct play against him)... and prolly fold Hand 2 PF - I have the button, but he's only PFR 3.5 and in MP, so I should prolly figure TT+ and AK?

bigspenda73

10-08-2007, 08:54 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,546

And now you are one step closer to hand-reading based on hand-ranges....

There's more to it, but chew on this for a bit. By realizing he only opens 4% of his hands UTG, YOU JUST ELIMINATED 96% OF HIS POSSIBLE HOLDINGS. I think that gives us quite an advantage.

martindcx1e

10-08-2007, 09:39 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

1) yes, fold pre-flop. after your flop raise you should be looking for a cheap showdown imo. check behind. as played fold to the raise and you have to call the river.

2) i fold preflop here too. i don't mind the flop play. you prob could have raised a bit less but whatever.

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

bigspenda73

10-08-2007, 09:41 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,546

In hand 2 you'd much rather have a smaller sc than a hand like AJo or KQo.

EricE

10-08-2007, 10:20 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 894

I don't call raises PF with AJ. That would have saved you in both hands. But then, I think I am a bit of a nit.

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

martindcx1e

10-08-2007, 10:45 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,614

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricE

I don't call raises PF with AJ. That would have saved you in both hands. But then, I think I am a bit of a nit.

not calling a pfr with AJ is very standard, nit or not.

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

pokerfan

10-08-2007, 11:26 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,736

how about AJs in position?

martindcx1e

10-09-2007, 12:08 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan

how about AJs in position?

i dunno maybe if the pfr is really loose but then wouldn't you rather 3bet instead of call?

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

pokerfan

10-09-2007, 02:20 AM

#13 (permalink)

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i 'd call some reasonable raise with AJs against normal pfrs except super tight players. Last night i called UTG 1(tight) raise in LP , flopped nuts but didn't get paid off nicely

. Still a good call, i guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan

how about AJs in position?

i dunno maybe if the pfr is really loose but then wouldn't you rather 3bet instead of call?

martindcx1e

10-09-2007, 02:47 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,614

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan

i 'd call some reasonable raise with AJs against normal pfrs except super tight players. Last night i called UTG 1(tight) raise in LP , flopped nuts but didn't get paid off nicely

. Still a good call, i guess.

lol well that doesn't sound results oriented now does it? i just don't call with it cuz it is so easily dominated. if you do fine with it and don't get too attached to mediocre hands when you hit and don't spew against better kickers then more power to you.

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

XTR1000

10-09-2007, 11:19 PM

#15 (permalink)

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XTR1000 is an unknown quantity at this point

its just so hard to get money from weaker hands with AJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

xtr stand for exotic tranny retards

yo

bbqsquirrel

10-10-2007, 01:14 AM

#16 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Vancouver, Canada

Posts: 260

Easy fold preflop

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100NL adventures -- both FR and 6max

http://bbqsquirrel.blogspot.com

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