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martindcx1e
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11-02-2006, 10:14 PM
Post subject: Turned Set of Tens vs. Strange PFR Line
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Did he flop the nuts or turn the nuts or what? Try to get past the lack of a pfr...
50NL
Hero is UTG ($50) with  
Villain is CO ($50)
Pre-Flop
Hero calls .50
Villain raises to $3.25
BU calls $3.25
Hero calls $2.75
Flop (3 Players, Pot = $10)
  
Hero checks
Villain checks
BU checks
Turn (3 Players, Pot = $10)
Hero bets $7
Villain raises to $17
BU folds
Hero calls $10
River (2 Players, Pot = $44)
Hero checks
Villain is All-In (~$30)
Hero ?
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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This hand is 100% about a read. W/out any read whatsoever I might fold, but you are getting about 7.5 to 3 on your money and AQ is the hand I'm worrying about most here. I talked myself into it, against unknowns and crappy players I call, against solids I fold.
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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I'd fold and not think to much of it.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I literally go puke in the nearest trash can and call as there is 3 seconds left till autofold comes.
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Margin Of Error
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
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Why is he open pushing the river with the nuts? I think a hand like K10/J10 is much more likely.
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She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
Why is he open pushing the river with the nuts? I think a hand like K10/J10 is much more likely.
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It's only a 2/3 pot bet. You wouldn't push with KK/JJ/AQ here? I know I'm shoving.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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i folded
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
Why is he open pushing the river with the nuts? I think a hand like K10/J10 is much more likely.
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It's only a 2/3 pot bet. You wouldn't push with KK/JJ/AQ here? I know I'm shoving. |
JJ and KK are certainly possible, but Im paying off set over set here almost every time. Only time I'm not is if I'm up against a total nit and I know for a fact that he has AA or KK and both of those are on the board, then I might let go of my set.
As it is, I'm worried most about AQ and w/ 7.5 to 3 odds, I'm calling most of the time here.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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i think the pfr's check on the flop is really important here. he's either drawing or not too worried about ppl catching up. surely a single pair hand cbets no?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
i think the pfr's check on the flop is really important here. he's either drawing or not too worried about ppl catching up. surely a single pair hand cbets no?
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Sometimes a megadonk with AA/AK but for the most part all pairs bet. I think it's a good fold because I don't think the odds justify the call.
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Margin Of Error
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
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I dont like checking the river, lead out for like $18-20. Checking the river is basically telling anyone but a huge donk you dont like your hand and want to be pushed off it.
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She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
I dont like checking the river, lead out for like $18-20. Checking the river is basically telling anyone but a huge donk you dont like your hand and want to be pushed off it.
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This is the reason I like the check/call here. Your right, anyone will want to push you off your hand including a lot of hands that you have beat and that wouldn't have called a raise. Meanwhile, hands that beat you will raise too, but they were going to do that anyway, now werent they.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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easy fold, sorry
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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yay more approval 
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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MiJ
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 208
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push the turn..
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MiJ
push the turn..
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why?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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MiJ
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 208
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MiJ
push the turn..
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why? |
it depends on the player. any stats would be helpful.
if he's 20/10/2
a CO raise makes his range so wide that you cant really pinpoint what hand he has
he could have set as easily as he could have 2pair/set/ ...if he has a set or the str8 o well..it really depends on the player but im stacking off here on the turn..
if i had to put money on it ,based on his line i would say he had AQ ,kk/jj...i still stack off the turn
also any reads at all would be helpful..
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
Why is he open pushing the river with the nuts?
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? ? ?
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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givememyleg
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11-03-2006, 03:35 AM
Post subject: Re: Turned Set of Tens vs. Strange PFR Line
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#19 (permalink)
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,042
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Try to get past the lack of a pfr...
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I'm trying real real hard!
I think the only hand that does this that you beat would be 77/KJ/AK(?)... stats/reads would help to know if KJ/AK is in his range. I think it's a good fold.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MiJ
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MiJ
push the turn..
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why? |
it depends on the player. any stats would be helpful.
if he's 20/10/2
a CO raise makes his range so wide that you cant really pinpoint what hand he has
he could have set as easily as he could have 2pair/set/ ...if he has a set or the str8 o well..it really depends on the player but im stacking off here on the turn..
if i had to put money on it ,based on his line i would say he had AQ ,kk/jj...i still stack off the turn
also any reads at all would be helpful.. |
if i had reads i would say them. what do you put villain on after he checks flop?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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question:
WTF do we actually beat other than AK?
FWIW, is this player good enough to c/r with a monster or even just check in a multiway pot with only a gutshot?
I think id c/c the turn and look to c/c the river because i am concerned i have a monster second best hand i dont want to really stack off with.
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Phantaroth
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 505
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I call, this is a nice pot and I do not give the players credit for having the nuts as much as you guys do in this spot.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
I think id c/c the turn and look to c/c the river because i am concerned i have a monster second best hand i dont want to really stack off with.
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after he checked flop i was really suspicious. is this why you c/c turn? it seems like i am more concerned with the flop check than most others are.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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I'm pretty sure ppl only check a pair in a large pot if its HU. This board is straight-dangerous and its a three-way- I think JT and KT would cbet for sure. Im pretty sure KJ would play around as well. Only hands that would check flop in this contested pot would be a set or total crap- KK, JJ or 77, or AQ. I really don't see the villain holding a 2 pair.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
I think id c/c the turn and look to c/c the river because i am concerned i have a monster second best hand i dont want to really stack off with.
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after he checked flop i was really suspicious. is this why you c/c turn? it seems like i am more concerned with the flop check than most others are. |
Pot control
out of position
Very scary board given what we determine to be villains preflop range.
FWIW, i should really be saying that stacking off with a set is always good at 50nl, but maybe here it isnt.
Opps line makes no sense against anything we beat, and we dont beat shit to be fairly honest. 
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Margin Of Error
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phantaroth
I call, this is a nice pot and I do not give the players credit for having the nuts as much as you guys do in this spot.
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This is my problem with it. How can you give an unknown credit for a monster in a hand where the Hero seems to have played extremely weak/passive. I would have to call this without reads. I think leading the river for $18-20 is almost always +EV against an unknown in this spot.
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She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phantaroth
I call, this is a nice pot and I do not give the players credit for having the nuts as much as you guys do in this spot.
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This is my problem with it. How can you give an unknown credit for a monster in a hand where the Hero seems to have played extremely weak/passive. I would have to call this without reads. I think leading the river for $18-20 is almost always +EV against an unknown in this spot. |
if we bet the river we arent folding.
The turn raise commited us to the pot, hence why i c/c block bet or c/c and c/c river for a decent price.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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I like this fold, I'm thinking KK, possibly AQ, but it really smells of KK to me.
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DaHorror
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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I fold the river sometimes...if he doesn't have KK/AQ then he'll be gone soon playing like this. It doesn't matter whether he's solid or a donk...even donks push the nuts.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
Why is he open pushing the river with the nuts? I think a hand like K10/J10 is much more likely.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
I dont like checking the river, lead out for like $18-20. Checking the river is basically telling anyone but a huge donk you dont like your hand and want to be pushed off it.
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This reasoning is horrible, anyone trying to learn poker should just ignore these posts.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaHorror
I fold the river sometimes...if he doesn't have KK/AQ then he'll be gone soon playing like this. It doesn't matter whether he's solid or a donk...even donks push the nuts.
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dont underestimate how well this hand is played. Most players at 50nl are incapable of trying to take a free card on the flop here. Checking kkk however is a little dodgy as you expect callers and action on this flop from weaker hands.
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