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Bawookles
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01-16-2008, 10:32 PM
Post subject: Turn a tournament player into a cash game player
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Hey, folks!
I'm a player who has a 40% ITM ratio when I play one table SNG's, however, when I play no-limit cash games I don't do so well. I'm thinking that it has something to do with the fact that the SNG's are mostly a preflop game whereas cash games are mostly postflop, and evidently my postflop game isn't very good!
I know this is a very general and broad question and it's hard to answer when you don't really know how I play but are there some guidelines or tips I can use when trying to adjust my play from tournaments to playing in a cash game?
Is a no-limit cash game about grinding it out, more or less? Should I be folding TPTK to big raises and resistance on the flop because people are camping out for sets? I've got a feeling I play a little too fast for cash games and it's more about waiting for the nuts or near nuts. Is that right?
Thanks!
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cowboyardee
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 66
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Right off the bat, what limits are you jumping into in cash games? Online, brick and mortar? A lot of the strategy, how loose or tight you should play, how aggro to be and when to make your moves depends on the tables you're playing against
in other words, you shouldn't play a 50nl online game full of nits like you would in your friend's basement against a bunch of TV poker junkie maniacs and calling stations.
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Bawookles
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cowboyardee
Right off the bat, what limits are you jumping into in cash games? Online, brick and mortar? A lot of the strategy, how loose or tight you should play, how aggro to be and when to make your moves depends on the tables you're playing against
in other words, you shouldn't play a 50nl online game full of nits like you would in your friend's basement against a bunch of TV poker junkie maniacs and calling stations.
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Well, I've been playing in $1-2NL at a casino, max buy-in is $200. I feel like I don't really know how tight or how loose to be postflop. Example: I'll raise 3BB from middle position with AJ, get the BB to call me. Flop comes out A93 rainbow, I bet half the pot and the guy check-raises me 3x. I immediately assume the worst, like a set or better ace and fold and the guy smugly shows A10, assuming that was the best hand. Other times I've called flop and turn bets with second pair only to find the person had top pair, of course.
I guess it all depends on the table and the opponent, but I feel like there must be a few parameters that I should adjust to to make a better transition between tournament play and cash game.
Maybe in the end, it all comes down to just improving my post-flop game?
What is it that makes a person a better tournament player than a cash game player? Why does Helmuth have 11 bracelets and gets bulldozered in cash games? This is my problem, as well (well, not the 11 bracelets  )
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PapalRage
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Notre Dame
Posts: 309
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first off, make sure to read all the stickies in the appropriate forum. then, when you face 'big raises when you have TPTK' save the hand history and post it here with your reads of the villian (i highly recommend PokerTracker if you can spare the money). nobody can give general advice like always fold TPTK to a raise or never fold it etc... but if we see the specific hand we can give specific advice.
Also, a big thing that you absolutely MUST know if you are just starting out in cash is Bankroll Management. 20-25 buyins is a necessity. if you want the reasoning, click on the link. good luck.
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ndultimate.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Live $1/$2 is a VERY different beast than just about anything online.
An online gameplan will beat the game, but not for nearly the max.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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if you are 40% itm, stay there.
but, the biggest difference between the two, are difficult spots found postflop.
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Bawookles
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Live $1/$2 is a VERY different beast than just about anything online.
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How so? Am I right in assuming that online play entails more bluffing? I play a little online but not as much as live play, I just prefer live play, I can't get reads staring at a monitor.
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Bawookles
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
if you are 40% itm, stay there.
but, the biggest difference between the two, are difficult spots found postflop.
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That would be true! But postflop play is the real deal. I mean, you could cover all you need to know about preflop play with a few pages and a few tables, post-flop play is almost infinitely complex.
I'm not going to be good at cash games unless I improve my postflop play, and unfortunately, there's no system one could devise to play postflop, it's all situational.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bawookles
How so? Am I right in assuming that online play entails more bluffing?
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Not as true as you probably think. Live players are pretty easy to push around.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Playing limit will improve your postflop NL game. Weird hugh? It's true though. Helps you range people. I would never be the NL player I am today without first playing limit.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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...Meh although limit puts a lot of stress on needing a hand. NLHE rewards you more often for attacking people with no hand.
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Bawookles
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
Playing limit will improve your postflop NL game. Weird hugh? It's true though. Helps you range people. I would never be the NL player I am today without first playing limit.
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If this is true than I am really in trouble, because I suck at limit. I just can't stand the game anyway as it's a fish-fest with 5 callers to every raise and if you get a nice hand like AA or KK, good luck winning with them. I'm sure limit players will cry foul but to me that game is 90% luck and 10% good decision making. At least with no-limit you can protect your hand and punish someone trying to draw.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ed miller
never bet to protect your hand, protect the money behind. This is no limit
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Make bigger raises in loose games. DARE them to call.
2 Examples from my last session:
$3/$5 blinds
UTG makes it $25
Folded to me and I make it $100 with Black Aces intending to shove for $200 on any flop.
Loose player making lots of min-raises with crap makes it $10
Another loose player calls.
I re-raise to $60 with KQs.
Vegas $1/$3 $200 max
Total spewtard makes it $15
Guy who just sat down calls.
I re-raise to $75 with AJs intending to shove any flop.
Both pretty standard live game donkey-killer bet sizing. Don't let them off with small pre-flop mistakes when they will make HUGE ones.
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ed miller
never bet to protect your hand, protect the money behind. This is no limit
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Can you elaborate on this please????
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Bawookles
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Make bigger raises in loose games. DARE them to call.
Both pretty standard live game donkey-killer bet sizing. Don't let them off with small pre-flop mistakes when they will make HUGE ones.
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Hmmmm, interesting advice! Of course, making big reraises with KQ or AJ, you could be the one looking like a donk if they have a real hand!
The one thing about donks that bother me is they WILL NOT FOLD FLUSH DRAWS. You could go all-in, bet their first-born and their left arm, they will not fold, I'm talking on the turn even.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bawookles
Hmmmm, interesting advice! Of course, making big reraises with KQ or AJ, you could be the one looking like a donk if they have a real hand!
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If I waited for a hand everytime I play a hand fast, I would give up way too much. Well played NLHE sometimes puts a lot of money into the pot in odd places.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bawookles
The one thing about donks that bother me is they WILL NOT FOLD FLUSH DRAWS. You could go all-in, bet their first-born and their left arm, they will not fold, I'm talking on the turn even.
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Then shove on blank turns a lot!
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