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TT w/ low flop

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JeffreyGB

05-24-2005, 08:31 PM Post subject: TT w/ low flop

#1 (permalink)

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Thoughts?

Game #680733093: Texas Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1) - 2005/05/24 - 16:19:07 (ET)
Table "Orchid" Seat 5 is the button.
Seat 1: JGB146 ($39 in chips)
Seat 2: _Steel ($96.50 in chips)
Seat 3: wesmol ($37.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Nokke ($73 in chips)
Seat 5: Dooley ($34.27 in chips)
Seat 6: nucleus90 ($93.07 in chips)
Seat 7: Karapsol ($138.09 in chips)
Seat 8: Jensen ($20.25 in chips)
Seat 9: seeme ($43 in chips)
Seat 10: sirnoland ($49 in chips)
nucleus90: posts small blind $0.50
Karapsol: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to JGB146 [Tc Td]
Jensen: folds
seeme: folds
sirnoland: folds
JGB146: calls $1
_Steel: folds
wesmol: folds
Nokke: folds
Dooley: folds
nucleus90: raises to $4
Karapsol: folds
JGB146: calls $3
----- FLOP ----- [2s 2d 9d]
nucleus90: bets $6
JGB146: raises to $15
nucleus90: calls $9
----- TURN ----- [2s 2d 9d][8c]
nucleus90: checks
JGB146: bets $20 and is all-in
nucleus90: calls $20
----- RIVER ----- [2s 2d 9d 8c][Qs]

Results to follow.

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LeFou

05-24-2005, 08:55 PM

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is limping those big dogs one of those JGB things?

The rest is fine.

JeffreyGB

05-24-2005, 09:05 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LeFou

is limping those big dogs one of those JGB things?

The rest is fine.

Actually, it's an ilikeaces thing. I just do it because JJ/TT have paid off more for me since I started following his example. I did consider reraising preflop here, since it was heads-up. Decided I'd wait though, as chances of him having overcards AND hitting the flop were slim.

Interesting aside: I am finding that I'm starting to like limping marginal "raising" hands for the benefit it gives toward reading typical opponents and disguising my hand (esp in EP). If I have AJ and raise preflop, if I get a caller and hit an ace, I may be in trouble (and if not, everyone's gonna fold). On the other hand, if I limp and an ace hits, I may well double up against A9s.

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dalecooper

05-24-2005, 09:13 PM

#4 (permalink)

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To me it looks sort of like he has a higher pocket pair. He could be an idiot with AK. Can't imagine he has a 2 although stranger things have happened.

Bmxicle

05-24-2005, 09:15 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Got any reads on him?

JeffreyGB

05-24-2005, 09:22 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmxicle

Got any reads on him?

He liked slowplaying (or check-raising) big hands (trapped my TPTK once with an overpair; trapped several others at the table while I was there). Didn't easily let go once he had money in (had refused to be bluffed off of middle pair with bluffs that the rest of his play told me he had no reads to see through).

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JeffreyGB

05-24-2005, 09:23 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dalecooper

To me it looks sort of like he has a higher pocket pair. He could be an idiot with AK. Can't imagine he has a 2 although stranger things have happened.

Given this, would you have played it differently? The higher pocket pair thought occurred to me moments after I pushed.

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Bmxicle

05-24-2005, 09:32 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Probably an over pair, or maybe he was chasing the flush and spiked top pair on the river.

dalecooper

05-24-2005, 09:36 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalecooper

To me it looks sort of like he has a higher pocket pair. He could be an idiot with AK. Can't imagine he has a 2 although stranger things have happened.

Given this, would you have played it differently? The higher pocket pair thought occurred to me moments after I pushed.

Yes - after he cold called the raise on the flop I would have checked behind on the turn, and given it more thought on the river depending how he bet (if he bet), and whether or not one of my lucky 10s landed.

Bmxicle

05-24-2005, 09:40 PM

#10 (permalink)

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pretty much anything he could reasonably have you don't really beat by the river except for AK, A9, k9 but those aren't too likely.

dalecooper

05-24-2005, 09:49 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmxicle

pretty much anything he could reasonably have you don't really beat by the river except for AK, A9, k9 but those aren't too likely.

Agreed. Given how this hand went down, let's analyze his likely holdings:

- He pre-flop raised 3xBB, a standard amount for a high pair or high card hand. However, he was almost last to act that round and there was only one limper, so it could be a steal.

- He bet out on a flop of 229 and then flat called your raise. That tells us one of two things: either he's a bad player who can't let go after he shows any aggression, or he's a decent player who has some kind of hand. In category 1, he might have: AK, AQ, AJ, etc. (basically any two face cards), or even nothing. In category 2 he might have: any overpair aces through jacks; also possibly a middle pair, let's say sixes through eights; A9, K9, Q9, J9, or T9.

To me the most likely hand for the way everything happened is pocket jacks or pocket queens. He pre-flop raised, bet out when the board came all unders, flat-called a raise, called your all-in. If he doesn't have the 2 himself, then he thinks at least that you don't have the 2, and if you have the 9 he beats you. He might also have pocket tens, the one option no one ever accounts for in these scenarios.

Second most likely is that he's a stubborn mule that can't get rid of AK or AQ. He sort of knows you're ahead of him, but thinks he "has outs" (the cry of the losing poker player).

Third most likely is that he's sucking you in with pocket 9s. But I kind of doubt it. His flop bet doesn't look like a flopped house.

Fourth most likely, top pair good kicker. He has a 9 and doesn't put you on an overpair.

Fifth most likely, something with a 2 in it... maybe A2? It's hard to see but if he's tricky or a maniac, it's possible.

Last, a middle pair of some sort lower than a 9. If so, he's truly a fish.

LeFou

05-24-2005, 09:55 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

I did consider reraising preflop here, since it was heads-up. Decided I'd wait though, as chances of him having overcards AND hitting the flop were slim.

I meant BEFORE that ... when there were still six to act. What're the odds of one of them having overcards and hitting one of 'em? Above average.

After all those folds and nucleus's raise, i dig the flat call.

dsaxton

05-24-2005, 11:19 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Going all-in on the turn is suicide. He probably has an overpair and is probably going to call you. What did you think he was calling your raise with?

And I think it's better to raise with 10's or better before the flop, not strictly due to the value of your hand, but also because raising preflop makes it more likely you'll win the pot on the flop.

JeffreyGB

05-25-2005, 02:22 AM

#14 (permalink)

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That hand he had JJ. Sux0r. This hand, he didn't (and here I did have a read...I was positive I was better off than him through when all our chips went in):

------HAND 14------
Game #682678793: Texas Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1) - 2005/05/24 - 22:10:15 (ET)
Table "Cannonade" Seat 2 is the button.
Seat 1: Atherm ($16 in chips)
Seat 2: dc_ray ($80.50 in chips)
Seat 3: thefish8 ($45.34 in chips)
Seat 4: Janksta ($27.58 in chips)
Seat 5: muck_me ($29.15 in chips)
Seat 6: Zippo25 ($50.50 in chips)
Seat 7: JGB146 ($18.33 in chips)
Seat 8: lego ($19.25 in chips)
Seat 9: sirnoland ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 10: xlpanda ($69.50 in chips)
thefish8: posts small blind $0.50
Janksta: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to JGB146 [Tc Ts]
muck_me: raises to $3
Zippo25: folds
JGB146: calls $3
lego: folds
sirnoland: folds
xlpanda: folds
Atherm: folds
dc_ray: folds
thefish8: folds
Janksta: folds
----- FLOP ----- [9h 4c 3c]
muck_me: bets $5
JGB146: raises to $15.33 and is all-in
muck_me: calls $10.33
----- TURN ----- [9h 4c 3c][2d]
----- RIVER ----- [9h 4c 3c 2d][Td]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
JGB146: shows [Tc Ts] (Three of a kind, Tens, Nine high)
muck_me: shows [Ad 5d] (A Straight, Five high)
muck_me collected $36.41 from Main pot

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a500lbgorilla

05-25-2005, 05:31 AM

#15 (permalink)

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In the spot, I find myself just calling the flop more and more and watching the opponent slow down on the turn, where I raise or bet to win.

Your play is fine, though. I'm not quite certain what the best approach is.

-'rilla

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You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

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