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ampersandman

02-13-2005, 04:18 AM Post subject: TT vs ??

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Adelaide, Australia

Posts: 31

There are some points I would like to clarify.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed)

converter

UTG ($31.05)
UTG+1 ($23.9)
UTG+2 ($21.3)
Hero ($23.85)
MP2 ($17.35)
MP3 ($38.25)
CO ($33.65)
Button ($3.25)
SB ($18.5)
BB ($30.2)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T

, T

. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $4, Hero calls $4,

5 folds, BB calls $3.50.

Firstly this was a tight player, so with my position I should have been thinking AA, etc. Strategy 1: fold pre-flop. Then...

Flop: ($12.25) T

, J

, 6

(3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets $6, Hero calls $6, BB calls $6.

So I am in. I should have raised $6 to sort out whether I was up against JJ or folded. I fold to a re-raise and prepare to fold the turn to a call pending the turn card. As it was I called because I am inexperienced (my mind just clouds over sometimes). A raise would have really changed the pot odds for a flush and flush + straight draw as well as chased AA, QQ, KK, etc away? (theoretically). As it was I am effectively slow-playing TT 3 ways against strong hands with good drawing potential = BAD?

--
You have to realize the NL is all about the pairs
- ilikeaces86

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02-13-2005, 10:07 AM Post subject: Re: TT vs ??

#2 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampersandman

So I am in. I should have raised $6 to sort out whether I was up against JJ or folded. I fold to a re-raise and prepare to fold the turn to a call pending the turn card.

You have flopped a very strong hand here, the 2nd nuts in fact. It would be very unlucky for you to be up against JJ, so you should not consider folding unless the turn and river make a 4 flush / 4 straight.

If another jack comes on the turn you have an even stronger hand, then it is most probably that one guy has a jack and has setted up, while you now have a BOAT.

This hand isn't the nuts, but you should play it like it is, it would be very rare that the 2nd nuts will run into the nuts.

Oh and also, I think the smooth call on the flop here is fine, and a smooth call or push on the turn would be fine, this is a hand you want to slowplay!

wobbler

02-13-2005, 01:03 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 134

I would go all-in on the flop, with no hesitation.
The pot is already big $12+$6 = $18, and you only have about $20 left.

I think it would be a big mistake to slow play in this situation. You need to bet big to punish draws.

Mony B

02-13-2005, 04:46 PM Post subject: raise

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2004

Posts: 192

there is no reason like you stated above not to reraiseon the flop. He could have JJ and you would have to reload when the hand is over, but hey it happends. Player BB looks like hes on a draw, by the time the flop gets to him hes 4:1 on his money after he checked. UTG+2 could have AJs, or QQ. Either way i would say your a favorit here and should raise double his original bet, or option two, push, in my mind with the straight and flush draw here raising is the only option unless you feel UTG+2 has JJ.

ampersandman

02-13-2005, 09:34 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Adelaide, Australia

Posts: 31

Turn: ($30.25) 3

(3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets $4, Hero raises to $8, BB calls $8, UTG+2 calls $4.

River: ($54.25) A

(3 players)
BB calls $12.20 (All-In), UTG+2 calls $3.30 (All-In), Hero calls $5.85 (All-In).

Final Pot: $75.60

Nok_sarika shows [ Qh, Kc ] a straight, ten to ace.
bigcro doesn't show [ Ac, As ] three of a kind, aces.
step456 doesn't show [ Tc, Ts ] three of a kind, tens.
Nok_sarika wins $6.35 from side pot #2 with a straight, ten to ace.
Nok_sarika wins $5.1 from side pot #1 with a straight, ten to ace.
Nok_sarika wins $61.15 from the main pot with a straight, ten to ace.
scooter_88 has left the table.
bullhauler7 has left the table.

--
You have to realize the NL is all about the pairs
- ilikeaces86

montimus

02-14-2005, 05:29 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by wobbler

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. The pot is already large enough to justify going all in on the flop. After seeing the results, you would have been beat on the river regardless, but you would have put the money in the middle with the best hand, and that's what matter in a hand like this.

With the huge raise, you can rest assured he's either got an overpair, trips or two pair, and you can bet that BB was on the draw since he just called.

And if you're going to slowplay it like you did, the turn would have been the time to go all-in. If you're only going to raise to 8 and leave 5 more bucks, you may as well push in the rest. You want to be the aggressor and not the caller unless you have the nuts.

All-in on either the flop or turn would have been the correct move here. Slowplaying this hand is only going to cost you money in the longrun, especially with three people in the hand and two draws on the flop(a straight draw and flush draw).

elipsesjeff

02-14-2005, 05:34 AM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

Slow Play = bad

especially with a 2 suited board and connected broadway cards.

All in!!!

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r8ed

02-14-2005, 03:28 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

Either way this guy isn't folding AA, so you lose either way. I think all in on the flop like wobbler says, especially since you had a decent pot already.

Mony B

02-15-2005, 02:51 AM Post subject: no out situation

#9 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2004

Posts: 192

your best play on the flop would be to push, you would have gotten a call from rockets and lost on the river anyways but atleast the draw wouldnt have hit which turns this into a bad beat story. The only way you could have let this hand go was preflop but that would be dumb, loose loose situation man.

LeFou

02-15-2005, 10:58 AM Post subject: Re: TT vs ??

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampersandman

as well as chased AA, QQ, KK, etc away? (theoretically).

Yes, theoretically. But not actually. Not really. Not for these stakes.

Those hands are going to showdown with you with the possible exception if they're both black and the remaining two streets come hearts.

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