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Staresy
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07-12-2006, 08:32 PM
Post subject: TT - multiway raised pot - checked to in position
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land
Posts: 1,240
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Anyone bet out here? If so, why? If not, why not?
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
8 players
Stack sizes:
UTG: $73.45
UTG+1: $31.05
MP1: $68.70
MP2: $50.65
CO: $48.25
Staresy: $69.55
SB: $40.40
BB: $50.80
Pre-flop: (8 players) Staresy is on the Button with T T
UTG raises to $1, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Staresy calls, 2 folds.
Flop: 7 3 J ($5.75, 5 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO Checks, Staresy ....
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freechus9
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IN UR BOX HAXXING UR FILEZ
Posts: 1,000
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I would check, because a) this is a raised pot, so someone could potentially be going for a c/r. b) this is a pretty drawy board, so your bet most probably will be called, and then you won't know where you stand on the turn.
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My sig is too much for you to handle.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I re-raise pre-flop to $6, unless you have a read that UTG minraises premium hands. As played I check behind on the flop and am done unless I hit my set.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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I think checking here is weak. If it's a tight table, I make <PSB and fold if raised. If called, I fold if bet into on the next street but if it's checked to me I fire a second barrel on a non-diamond turn. Position+aggression=+EV.
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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Id probably bet the flop $4.50 and check the turn. Getting called here will leave you not knowing if you are ahead but checking here allows worse hands to bet you off yours.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I dunno. I think a bet of $4 or $4.50 almost always gets check-raised or called here. You're folding to a c/r and with calls there are 10 cards you really don't want to see (any diamond), 12 you're not that happy seeing (A-J) and only 2 that improve your hand. It may seem weak, but I think checking is the best play with this many in the pot. If the turn comes blank you may get another chance to take the pot, but I'm fine giving up my $1 on this one.
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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Maybe, but the PF agressor didn't bet nor did anyone else. Bet and your likely to get called by the draw only because nobody else has a J either.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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whats an UTG miniraise signify, if this was 6max it could be a pp AJ/JJ so whats the range here any ideas?
UTG either has a monster or nothing imo, so betting doesnt do us that much harm i dont think.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
I dunno. I think a bet of $4 or $4.50 almost always gets check-raised or called here. You're folding to a c/r and with calls there are 10 cards you really don't want to see (any diamond), 12 you're not that happy seeing (A-J) and only 2 that improve your hand. It may seem weak, but I think checking is the best play with this many in the pot. If the turn comes blank you may get another chance to take the pot, but I'm fine giving up my $1 on this one.
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I'm not betting here just to win this particular hand, though if I do that's great. I'm also betting to give action and show that I'm capable of making moves with position. If I'm raised off this hand or showdown cheaply against Jx, I'm more likely to get action on later, better hands. If there's any place you should be trying to make moves it's on the button, and this is a good hand for doing it.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EricE
Maybe, but the PF agressor didn't bet nor did anyone else. Bet and your likely to get called by the draw only because nobody else has a J either.
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I agree that it's unlikely anyone has a J, unless it's AJ and they're c/r'ing. I think someone might call with overcards though, esp. when your bet from the button looks like it could be a steal.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EricE
Maybe, but the PF agressor didn't bet nor did anyone else. Bet and your likely to get called by the draw only because nobody else has a J either.
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I agree that it's unlikely anyone has a J, unless it's AJ and they're c/r'ing. I think someone might call with overcards though, esp. when your bet from the button looks like it could be a steal. |
...and that's bad how? If overcards call and don't catch on the turn they're check/folding to a second barrel.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
I'm not betting here just to win this particular hand, though if I do that's great. I'm also betting to give action and show that I'm capable of making moves with position. If I'm raised off this hand or showdown cheaply against Jx, I'm more likely to get action on later, better hands. If there's any place you should be trying to make moves it's on the button, and this is a good hand for doing it.
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I like aggression and I like an aggressive image. But you can easily build one in HU and 3-way pots.
I'm not trying to say that betting is a bad play. I would do it in this situation, with the right reads (e.g. loose UTG PFraiser, weak/tight table). But I think it's worth pointing out that a) this is an obvious c/r situation, b) you're rarely winning the pot with a bet here, and c) with callers there are a lot of scare cards that can fall on the turn and push you off this hand. I don't see any shame (or incredible weakness) in checking here.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EricE
Maybe, but the PF agressor didn't bet nor did anyone else. Bet and your likely to get called by the draw only because nobody else has a J either.
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I agree that it's unlikely anyone has a J, unless it's AJ and they're c/r'ing. I think someone might call with overcards though, esp. when your bet from the button looks like it could be a steal. |
...and that's bad how? If overcards call and don't catch on the turn they're check/folding to a second barrel. |
It adds a bunch of cards you have to worry about falling on the turn.
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
It adds a bunch of cards you have to worry about falling on the turn.
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<shrug> The more hands we fold out now the less we have to worry about those overcards.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I probably bet out about 2/3rd the pot here unless I have a read that UTG would check/raise with an overpair or top pair here. It kinda sucks there's as many people in the pot as there is, but I don't think we can let a flush draw (or overcards) see the turn for free.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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I bet because I might have the best hand right now. My chances of improving are slim, but there are tons of cards I'd hate to see on the turn. I make it around 4.50.
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