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TT on button, set vs 4 of suit board

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MNMP2

02-22-2006, 06:01 PM Post subject: TT on button, set vs 4 of suit board

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posts: 156

I am ready to learn more about this game and take it to the next level. I have recently been taking a beating at $100NL, so I moved down to work on my game without worrying so much about $$$.

Please teach me using this hand I had:
I had been here about 1.5 orbits to this point, villain was limping into a lot of pots, playing a lot of hands, but not showing down anything.

Game #1304232690 - (blinds $0.25/$0.50) No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2006/02/22-12:50:19.3 (CST)
Table "Nicobar" (real money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Seat 1: bignutz29 ($62.45 in chips)
Seat 2: IsleDweller ($41.35 in chips)
Seat 3: GSFan ($38.15 in chips)
Seat 4: pplayer666 ($61.70 in chips)
Seat 5: Windblow ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 6: bajstolle ($23.20 in chips)
Seat 7: GentlemanKen ($97.85 in chips)
Seat 8: Pappa_Earl ($21.80 in chips)
Seat 9: Prophet6 ($53.65 in chips)
Seat 10: pocono2 ($85.90 in chips)
pocono2 : Post Small Blind ($0.25)
bignutz29: Post Big Blind ($0.50)
Dealing...
Dealt to Prophet6 [ Ts ]
Dealt to Prophet6 [ Th ]
IsleDweller: Call ($0.50)
GSFan : Call ($0.50)
pplayer666: Fold
Windblow: Fold
bajstolle: Fold
GentlemanKen: Fold
Pappa_Earl: Call ($0.50)
Prophet6: Raise ($2.50)
pocono2 : Fold
bignutz29: Call ($2)
IsleDweller: Call ($2)
GSFan : Call ($2)
Pappa_Earl: Call ($2)
*** FLOP *** : [ Td 9d 3d ]
bignutz29: Check
IsleDweller: Bet ($0.50)
GSFan : Fold
Pappa_Earl: Fold
Prophet6: Raise ($9.50)
bignutz29: Fold
IsleDweller: Call ($9)
*** TURN *** : [ Td 9d 3d ] [ 6d ]
IsleDweller: Check
Prophet6: Check
*** RIVER *** : [ Td 9d 3d 6d ] [ Kc ]
IsleDweller: Bet ($7)
Prophet6: Fold
IsleDweller: Winner -- doesn't show cards
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $30.20 | Rake: $1.55
Board: [ Td 9d 3d 6d Kc ]
bignutz29 lost $2.50 (folded)
IsleDweller bet $19, collected $37.20, net +$18.20
GSFan lost $2.50 (folded)
pplayer666 didn't bet (folded)
Windblow didn't bet (folded)
bajstolle didn't bet (folded)
GentlemanKen didn't bet (folded)
Pappa_Earl lost $2.50 (folded)
Prophet6 lost $12 (folded) [ Ts Th ] (three of a kind, tens)
pocono2 lost $0.25 (folded)

Please advise - good fold, or bad fold based on my play. Then did I even play this right on the turn/river?

I really want to get my game up to the next level, so all sound advice appreciated!

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BankItDrew

02-22-2006, 06:29 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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BankItDrew will become famous soon enough

Represent the farking turn card... The turn is where you find out whether or not you are going to win the hand.

If you represent the turn card by hitting it strong - your opponent will fold without one of the 9 remaining diamonds.. a few of which he would fold to any sizeable bet. If he calls - you now have 11 outs (22%) to make a full house. So, since he probably doesn't have a half decent diamond, and since your are 22% to make a full house, you should win this pot.

Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!

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Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?

Renton

02-22-2006, 06:31 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,992

i don't think villian had the flush

Fnord

02-22-2006, 06:46 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Ni Han, pay him off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

MNMP2

02-22-2006, 06:52 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posts: 156

1. How much should I have bet on that turn?

2. If he would call the above bet, what would I be looking to do on the river?

This is helping me see my weaknesses - I just want to envision how this hand SHOULD have played out.

3. What makes you think he doesnt have a diamond at all?

And lastly,
Fnord,
What does NI Han mean? I'm a noob to a lot of this slang, but I want to learn to be a better player, so I need to know what that means.

freechus9

02-22-2006, 07:02 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: IN UR BOX HAXXING UR FILEZ

Posts: 1,000

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNMP2

It means Nice Hand. Anyway, the pot is about 30 on the turn, so I'd say anything around 15 should be enough. It's enough to represent a strong hand, and if he's got anything less than a face-card flush I think he'll dump because of your preflop raise. And like Bank said, you have a 1 in 5 shot to make a full house. A 15 dollar bet/call will make it 15 to you to win a total of about 45, which is 3 to 1. But with the chance that he's folding on the turn to your bet, I think you have the correct pot/implied odds to make a half-pot bet here. If he plays back at you, then call if and only if you think that you can win about 4 times as much as it is for you to call. For example, you bet 15, he raises to 40, make sure you think you will win a 100 dollar pot if you call. In that situation, theres 85 in the pot, and since he's OOP and aggro, you can be reasonably sure that another 15 of his is going into the pot.

Rondavu

02-22-2006, 07:03 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNMP2

Fnord,
What does NI Han mean? I'm a noob to a lot of this slang, but I want to learn to be a better player, so I need to know what that means.

Pwahaha. That sounds funny. No disrespect. I'll take this one Fnord. It means Nice hand.

There's a such thing in Hold-em as being "priced in". This is a perfect example on the river. If your opponent doesn't have the winning hand 1 out of 5 times, you win money by calling on the river, since 37/7 = 5+. I think it's fair to say this is the case here. I think that's why Fnord is telling you to pay it off. It's the correct thing to do. It's actually profitable to call. Always pay attention to the size of the pot vs your percieved chance to show down a winner when making these decisions. You'd be surprised how often the opponent doesn't have a flush in this spot.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

BankItDrew

02-22-2006, 07:03 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Posts: 2,789

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNMP2

1. How much should I have bet on that turn? 1/2 of the pot. I think this would even scare off most 2-6 of diamonds.

2. If he would call the above bet, what would I be looking to do on the river?Check/fold/call a $1 bet/hope for a full house

3. What makes you think he doesnt have a diamond at all? He checked the turn and there are only 9 diamonds left in the pack.

Fnord

02-22-2006, 07:14 PM

#9 (permalink)

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I only like a turn bet if he might fold a diamond.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

MNMP2

02-22-2006, 07:40 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posts: 156

I am very appreciative of the advice - I am learning.

Sorry about the stupid question, - I had to ask though

So my biggest mistake is that when he checked that turn, I should have bet 1/2 the pot. Then if he calls, I am thinking he probably would have checked the river and I could have just checked that to see if he had the darn diamond.(?) So NO bet on the river if he calls the turn bet, because he may be clinging to any diamond, right?

BankItDrew

02-22-2006, 07:52 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Exactumundo. You turn bet tells you how good his hand is.

Fnord

02-22-2006, 08:24 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItPayette

Exactumundo. You turn bet tells you how good his hand is.

When he check/raises and makes you want to vommit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

BankItDrew

02-22-2006, 08:58 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItPayette

Exactumundo. You turn bet tells you how good his hand is.

When he check/raises and makes you want to vommit...

Sure, fold to a check raise. However, representing cards that your opponents probably do not have, will win more pots than lose. I should have a sticky under your note saying: "check raise any 4suited board and take down pot 2/3 of the time..maybe more if opponent has weak diamond."

Represent
Represent
Represent

Most of the time, no one really has that good of a hand.

MNMP2

02-22-2006, 09:33 PM

#14 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posts: 156

This is golden.

I will start posting more hands. I am good enough at this point to know that I played the hand wrong, I just am not experienced or good enough to know exactly what I SHOULD HAVE DONE, and what I would do if the opp responds in different ways.

But this is a good start for me.

Thanks All!

Fnord

02-22-2006, 10:11 PM

#15 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItPayette

Represent
Represent
Represent

Next time I get to post-flop, I'll just check the box that says "bet 2/3 pot every street and fold to a raise" then tab over to one of my other 7 tables...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Lukie

02-22-2006, 10:12 PM

#16 (permalink)

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I think people telling hero to bet the turn here are crazy. Absolutely crazy.

Fnord

02-22-2006, 10:14 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

I think people telling hero to bet the turn here against a guy who limped UTG, called a raise and min-donked the flop are spewing chips.

Fixed your post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

bdawg56kg

02-23-2006, 09:11 AM

#18 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

I agree with Fnord and Lukie. Betting this turn is horrible. If you do bet 1/2 pot, you are betting $16 and villian has $12 left behind. So if he CR's AI, you have to call $12 into a $64 pot, just an ugly situation to be in. Check behind and hope to fill up and stack him. Otherwise call a small bet.

If you just call the $7 on the river, you are paying $7 instead of AT LEAST $16 to get to the same showdown. Which one sounds better?

MNMP2

02-24-2006, 02:00 AM

#19 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Las Vegas, NV

Posts: 156

So there seems to be 2 schools of thought here.

The second one is that I played this correct EXCEPT that I should have called that river bet. Is that right?

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