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trying to find my mistakes...self critique

  
 
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Chopper
Old 08-15-2007, 01:17 PM     Post subject: trying to find my mistakes...self critique #1 (permalink)  
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hand one...figured i was being "played at," and 3bet JJ as a response. that led to the calling the push on flop. i thought for only $6...he'd shove any A or K. well, he had it. and i should have never 3bet the JJ here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($24.75)
MP1 ($13.75)
Hero ($21.20)
CO ($17.90)
Button ($28.35)
SB ($27.65)
BB ($14.20)
UTG ($24.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J, J.
3 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, 3 folds, BB raises to $3, Hero raises to $8.5, BB calls $5.50.

Flop: ($17.10) T, 4, A (2 players)
BB bets $5.7 (All-In), Hero calls $5.70.

Turn: ($0) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($0) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $28.50


hand two...if i remember correctly, villain here was semi-loose and aggressive. we had been in a pissing match where he bumped me off several hands where i was staying "disciplined."

i took my shot on the river, and shouldn't have called the shove, even though i knew a higher A wasnt in his range the way this hand was played (he 3bets AJ pf). this is $13 of spew?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($24.75)
BB ($17.90)
UTG ($36.35)
Hero ($24.20)
MP1 ($12.15)
MP2 ($11.05)
MP3 ($9.95)
CO ($14.85)
Button ($26.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with , .
1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, 5 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.75) , , (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, SB folds.

Turn: ($1.25) (2 players)
BB bets $0.5, Hero calls $0.50.

River: ($2.25) (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero raises to $3, BB raises to $16.9, Hero calls $13.90.

Final Pot: $36.05

are these correct assessments?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Rondavu
Old 08-15-2007, 01:35 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: You actually 4-bet JJ preflop here. I would either call the 3-bet and assess the flop, or if you think villain will gamble often enough with a losing range, make your 4-bet an outright preflop push.

Hand 2: This line you took is funky/fishy. What is it about the Qd that gives you a green light to pot build? I'm not saying you shouldn't build a pot in this hand (though it is questionable), but if so, why not build it on the flop or turn? This is not a logical max value line. This looks more like fancy play syndrome. Fancy plays are designed to extract maximum value from elite opponents in deep meta situations. They must be precise, and the timing must be perfect. This is not the time. Assess your hand strength earlier.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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Pelion
Old 08-15-2007, 01:50 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Hand 1) You didnt 3bet, you 4bet. What were your reasons? Noone can tell you if you should have 4bet light or not since it depends so much on history but this is going to be spew an awful lot of the time without a good reason.

Stack sizes also make this an awkward spot but I think you either have to shove preflop, or call any flop after 4betting here. You cant really 4bet small enough for there to be enough behind to properly play a flop.

Hand 2) Preflop is raise or fold (usually fold from that position). A calldown isnt terrible after that seeing as a raise will probably fold out worse hands but be called by better hands and you are WA/WB on that flop. I still probably raise the flop for value and information though.
River, wtf how can you call that? If you are going to raise for value do it on the flop so you get some useful information aswell and build a slightly bigger pot. If you are going to call down then just call down and dont get silly on the river. What percentage of his river range calls a raise there (that you beat)? What range do you put him on that river?
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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Vrax
Old 08-15-2007, 03:45 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
Fancy plays are designed to extract maximum value from elite opponents in deep meta situations.
QFT

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB

Those two above negate each other, didn't they?


Hand#1:
If you think, he is on bigger overpair then fold to his 3bet.
If you thing he's full of shit and can call with crap (just like in that famous hand "Lukie A4o vs gambler2k4 KQo") then push. If you are wrong, then you won't be punished as hard as in deeper stacks.

Hand #2:
Open fold preflop.
As played, raise flop to $1 and bet/fold turn if villain calls flop and checks the turn. Even if he flips his spew from time to time, it doesn't give you excuse to go broke in tiny, unraised pot with such a lukewarm hand.
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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Pythonic
Old 08-15-2007, 04:48 PM #5 (permalink)  
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did villian have 6/7?
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Chopper
Old 08-15-2007, 05:53 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythonic
did villian have 6/7?
no, pocket 4's.


you guys, i know you were all trying to help. did any of you read my pre-hand comments?

hand one, i figured i was being played back at.

hand two, we had been in a pissing match, and i had been bumped off by pure aggression quite a bit...because i was trying to stay disciplined.

i asked for confirmation of spew. i am looking for any justification BASED ON MY THOUGHT PROCESS.

i wasnt looking for abc advice, as i knew these were bad lines. i even said so.

i was looking for help on a different level. but, i did still see/hear the comments loud and clear. thank you. no sarcasm meant.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Pythonic
Old 08-15-2007, 05:57 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I am only calling the all in on hand 2 with 2 pair. A10 just doesnt cut it.
Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
 
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martindcx1e
Old 08-16-2007, 09:10 PM     Post subject: Re: trying to find my mistakes...self critique #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
hand one...figured i was being "played at," and 3bet JJ as a response.
why on earth do you think this? you are obviously not just trying to be a blind-bully. why would you just randomly "figure" that you were being played at?

hand 2 made me vomit a little. i think you made about the most mistakes one can possibly make in a hand.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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Pelion
Old 08-17-2007, 01:12 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
you guys, i know you were all trying to help. did any of you read my pre-hand comments?
Did you read our comments?

1) What made you think you were being played back at? If you think you are being played back at there are better ways to play it. If your reasons are weak it's terrible.

2) Preflop is terrible. Flop is bad. Turn is bad. River is terrible.

And yes we read your comments. ITS STILL TERRIBLE!
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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